Let Me Walk You Out
Two women navigating young adulthood, relationships, ambition, and self-growth while sharing lessons that you can “walk out” of every episode with.
Let Me Walk You Out
Hustle Culture Lied to Us
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S1, E7: In this episode of Let Me Walk You Out, Stephanie and Kyndall are talking about hustle culture, ambition, burnout, and the pressure to constantly be doing more.
As women in their 20s who are building careers, businesses, brands, and lives they’re proud of, Stephanie and Kyndall reflect on the duality of hustle culture: the part that feels empowering, motivating, and aligned, and the part that can quickly become overwhelming, exhausting, and rooted in comparison.
The conversation explores what it feels like to be “booked and busy,” why rest can feel so hard to accept, how social media amplifies the pressure to keep achieving, and what happens when your identity becomes too closely tied to your accomplishments. They also talk about burnout, the importance of giving yourself a longer runway, knowing what you’re actually chasing, and learning how to pursue your goals without sacrificing your peace, health, or joy.
If you’ve ever felt like you’re doing everything you’re “supposed” to do but still feel tired, pressured, or unsure if the hustle is actually leading you where you want to go, this episode is for you.
Listen in as we unpack ambition, rest, productivity, and the real cost of trying to do it all.
New episodes drop every Wednesday.
Resources mentioned during the episode:
Good Molecules Pimple Patches: https://amzn.to/3R4BVM6
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Black-Owned Business of the Week: For God’s Nation
Vibe Check: For God’s Nation is a faith-based clothing and apparel brand created to spread the gospel through fashion. The brand offers apparel including shirts, hoodies, and handmade trucker hats, with a mission rooted in helping believers boldly represent their faith through what they wear.
Location: http://www.forgodsnation.com & Occasional Pop-ups
Founder/Owner: Meir
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IG: https://www.instagram.com/forgodsnation/
FB: https://www.facebook.com/share/1B5UPzZm8L/?mibextid=wwXIfr
X: https://x.com/forgodsnation?s=11
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@forgodsnation?_r=1&_t=ZT-97qoeJrJoar
I mean, I can remember being like, Yeah, I'm I'm hustle culture down. Like, that's me. Like, I love this. But then there's been moments where I'm like, actually, no, somebody please come rescue me. Like, do I have to subscribe? I mean, you don't have to do anything, but it just feels there's so much pressure. At the end of the day, that's the word pressure. Welcome back to Let Me Walk You Out, the podcast about growth, alignment, ambition, and navigating adulthood and so, so, so much more. We're so happy to have you back for another episode. Yes, we're your host. My name is Stephanie. I'm Kendall. And let's get straight into it, okay? So we're very excited for today's episode. As always, I feel like we said that at the beginning of the video. So, you know, I'm just gonna scratch that line, you know. Like, y'all know we're excited. And uh, we'll go ahead and get started with highs and lows. So, you want me to go first? Sure. Okay. Well, my high this week was Father's Day, and oh yeah, I just love seeing family, and the whole family came this time. Well, I mean, I'm not gonna say the whole family, but it was a good chunk of us. Like, it felt like all his children were there. Actually, yeah, all his children were there.
SPEAKER_01So else could they be on Father's Day?
SPEAKER_03I mean, that's true, that's true, that's valid. But now, like a lot of the well, only one of his offspring is actually a father, so yeah, it would be cool if he did his own thing. Like I would understand that, but it was nice that he came and the kids came too. Exactly. I love seeing my nieces and nephews because now I have well, actually, I only have one nephew, but two nieces, so that's like oh, it just warms my heart just to see them growing up. It's so crazy. But yeah, that was my high. I always love getting to spend time. Um, I love being able to spend time with family, so that just makes me happy. So, yeah, that was my high this week. What about you?
SPEAKER_01Love it. Um, my high was catching up with an old friend. Yeah. Um, I went out to Hattie B's. Oh, we've been to Hattie B's in a minute. Really? Yeah. Maybe like a year. No. Oh, okay, okay. This is like my fourth or fifth time now going to Hattie B's, but I don't go often. I don't know why. I mean, I guess you have to just kind of be in the mood for like a good tender plate. But anytime I go, I'm having a ball. It's so good. I don't do spicy though, so I always get the mild chicken tenders, but you know, I'm in the building. Yeah, girl. Some people get like the scorching. I just stick to mild. I'm keeping it cute.
SPEAKER_03I barely even touch mild sometimes. I'm like, what's below my dad? Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Like, I can't be sippling, right? Exactly. Fighting my food. But um, yeah, caught up with my friend Madison. I met her in high school. Oh. And then we both went to the same college as well. So known her for quite some time, but we both did different things after school. Um, she was up in New York for a second, now she lives in Alabama. Um, and we just hadn't actually seen each other in like years. So she texted me and was like, I mean, well, like she'll pop in every now and then and be like, hey Kendall, what's up? Like, we'll check in over text, but she texted me, like, would you be free to to like meet up? Um, between like, she gave me like a range, and I'm like, Are you home? Yes. And so we just met up and it was such a nice catch up. Like, so shout out to Madison. Shout out, Madison. Um, because yeah, we talked about anything and everything over some hot chicken. And I just am always just really happy when I can see someone I haven't seen in a long time and just hear what they're doing in life. And it's just it's a really nice feeling seeing everyone become who they are, and everyone's just out there like having their own like life lessons and and um arcs. Yeah, if that's it's a good word, arc. Everyone's on their own character arc, and then we come back together and talk about it over some chicken. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03It's like, wow, you are really out of Atlanta life, you know?
SPEAKER_01They have lemon pepper there, or are you just like straight, like, it's just straight tenders. It's not well, you've been there, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Oh, okay. They have um like a vegan option for the chicken sandwich. Oh, they do have a chicken sandwich, okay.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, so that was that was my high. I love it. Seeing my friend Madison. Oh, well, hey Madison.
SPEAKER_03I hope you're watching, girl. Yeah, I'm gonna send her this episode. Well, just deliver your actual in this alright.
SPEAKER_02Give us a like or something.
SPEAKER_03Um, okay, well, love that. Howdy's is good. Howdy's is good. Which location did you go to? The one on Moreland. Moreland. That's over there by Little Five Points. Yeah. Okay, got you. Yeah, that's like the OG location.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think so. That's the one I've been to the most. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I don't know if they still have that one off of Northside Drive. I think it was. It's over there. They do. They do. Okay, cool. Because I know Snooze was over there, but I think they closed that snooze. That was like a brunch place.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, I don't think I've ever been to Snooze, but I remember seeing it there. So Hattie Bees is definitely still there. Period. I'll have to circle back on them.
SPEAKER_03Haven't been there in a while. Well, low for me, I just feel like I'm working all the time. Like I feel like there are no breaks, you know. You know, like you were talking about Miami, where it was Buzz Club, another club, another club. That that literally feels like life for me right now. And I just really want to break, but I also don't want to break yet. And I guess that goes into today's episode.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I was gonna say, wow, lovely segue. Segway.
SPEAKER_03Literally, so I'm just gonna leave that there. We'll break it down. But that's been my low. Um, in just feeling like I just have not gotten the break that I feel like I've needed and or deserved just yet, even though that is gonna be a loose term, whether or not you deserve a break. Because if your body is telling you you need a break, you probably need to listen.
SPEAKER_01Like, you know how that's right. But you don't even need to be deserving, like what is what even is the concept of deserve a break?
SPEAKER_03I mean, let's be fair. Like, somebody shows up to work, they ain't done nothing all day, and then they talk about something they need a break.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they're extremely like examples, but I think in the context of us, yeah, we all never not deserved it because we be working, so we do.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, that's kind of been my low. Like this week was actually insane. It felt like every minute I was doing something, and I'm not gonna lie, it was a productive week, and I felt like I got a lot done, but I just feel so mentally exhausted, and I'm definitely looking forward to just being able to relax. But I also just don't think that I'm the type of person that can do that. Like, even when I'm relaxing, even when I'm taking a break, my mind is constantly still moving. Like, what else? Or how can we? Oh, I'm just gonna do this. Like, even when I'm on vacation, like that's what they say. Like, when you do take trips and you go on vacation, your mind is the freest, allowing you to think, and yeah, that's the time to write stuff down and to you know let your thoughts go where they want so that you could come back and reconcile them and like make action plans with those because I do have good ideas and things like that when I am just like taking a break and taking a step outside of Atlanta, Georgia. But I don't know, like even on vacation, when I'm working and I'm thinking like that, it just feels like it needs to be done now. Like, you know, you have an idea and it needs to be executed upon in that exact moment. So that's my low, just in general, over the past couple of weeks. That's how I've been feeling, and I'm looking forward to having a break. But like I said, I don't even know if the break that I get is actually gonna be a break.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, well, that's we'll leave it there because that's definitely the entire topic today. So we're gonna pick it back up.
SPEAKER_03We're definitely gonna pick it back up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, my low was that my skin was breaking out. Like, and I hate that.
SPEAKER_03Yes, I understand.
SPEAKER_01My skin goes up and down, it's been that way for like basically my entire young adult life, like maybe around middle school, high school, I'm noticing. No, high school.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because you know what? I remember when I was in high school, I used to get compliments all the time about my skin. People were like, your skin is glowing. And this would happen just at the most random times I'm walking in the hallway, like always. And then I started to get like hormonal acne, and I never heard that compliment again. I don't even think I've gotten that type of compliment like ever again. Oh my god, it was such a switch, and I noticed it. I was like, wow, like, because my whole face was just like covered, it felt like so. Uh yeah, I have moments of it being okay, and then moments where it's like, ooh, baby, yeah, we got to get this together. Like whiteheads, galore, oily galore, like everything. But it's really just because I at this point I kind of know my triggers, and I was just stressed out. Like we talked last episode about me moving, stressed out with that, stressed out with my eating habits, uh sleep habits, like it's just a lot going on. So when you combine all that, it's a recipe for my skin to look crazy. Yeah, but I just feel like when my skin is breaking out, I don't show up in the world as confidently. I try my best to because you shouldn't ever be not confident because you have acne. Like plenty of people do, and plenty plenty of people look great with acne. But I personally, you know, I mean I look at everyone else, like everyone looks great. But me. But me, I feel insane. So yeah, it wasn't like the most confident week I've ever had. And then sometimes I just start spiraling into like everything else that I'm feeling insecure about, and I try to stop that thought train because it's like, why are we even going there? So, yeah, would I say it was like my most confident, just like, oh, I love how I look right now, type of a week. Probably not. And I think it impacted my mood a little bit more than just surface level acne. Yeah, so I think now we've got a little bit more under control, but for a minute there, it was just feeling like, you know, a little bit out of control.
SPEAKER_03I don't ever think that your skin looks that bad, but you know, we are our own worst critics. We are. I'm gonna let you have it. We are, but I'm gonna tell you right now, you got good skin, my girl. You glowing all the time. Girl. She could talk about something. She was breaking out during moving. I was there. I didn't see none of that. But what? You you weren't looking. She even had the glasses. So I was looking at her face. I didn't see nothing. Not Jack Sugar Honey Iced tea. So maybe I got a picture. I gotta show you a picture. No, you don't have to show me nothing.
SPEAKER_01It was there, it was just so preoccupied with them boxes and stuff. We didn't have time to look. Girl, we had time to frolic. We was frolicing.
SPEAKER_03We were stuck in the field. Yeah, literally. But I feel you, like, skincare is one of those things that it's just so up and down, especially as women. Like, oh, it's so irritating. Yeah, and it could be so good one week, and you're like, oh my god, we're in the upwards direction. Like, we're doing good, and then the next week doing great, and you didn't change anything about your like skincare.
SPEAKER_01You kept the water intake up, yeah. Working out, you eating right, and then just out of nowhere. And it's always before an event, it's always before you want to go somewhere. Your skin will look phenomenal when all you have planned that week is working from home. You look phenomenal on the call with your boss. She's like, Wow, you look great. Like the audience is just zoomed. Yeah, literally. It's time to step out. Why do I have it right in the middle of the forehead? Literally me.
SPEAKER_03It's like, are you serious? Like anywhere else. I hate the forehead, and I hate like around like the nose and lip area. Yeah. You could do cheek or whatever.
SPEAKER_01Like, I feel like you know because that's not, I mean, you see it, but I don't see it, so it's more out of just like my yeah, it's not face on. Yeah. But unfortunately for me, I get them around my jaw, same, my cheek, a little bit on my forehead. Like, it's just in unfortunate places where I'm just like, this is ruining my day. Yeah, I feel you. But it's okay.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, actually, I was gonna tell you, and I'll tell y'all too, but the Mighty Patch, you know, those pimple patches, so uh good molecules actually makes pimple patches too. And they sell them in packs of like I wanna say it's like 30. It's double the amount that Mighty Patch comes in for like half the price. And so I was like, Oh, let me try these out, you know, we'll just see. Like, because I was going to get my regular pimple patches as I do, and I saw these, and I was like, Well, I'm getting more and it's I'm paying less, and I know good molecules are a good brand, so let me just try it. And they work just as well, if not even better.
SPEAKER_01Say that, yeah, because I think that's the biggest problem for me with them pimple patches, I would love to always have them in stock, but they're a little like that's at least like you know, $12, $15. I'm spending just $20 sometimes. Yeah, because fuck the invisible ones. I love the invisible ones.
SPEAKER_03I don't get the invisible ones.
SPEAKER_01See, I had to just sometimes I have to bite the bullet because I want to go out and run errands and have it on. And it's like, this is so nice, but why is it five dollars more? Exactly.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, because they know it's convenient to just put it on and yeah.
SPEAKER_01I'm like, is there anything in the formula that makes this cost five dollars more? Really? Because something's telling me no.
SPEAKER_03But good to know. Good molecules. Yeah, good molecules. I'll send you the link, I'll put it in the description below. Yeah, for real. It doesn't even sponsor it's really not. I've just had a good experience with it, and I really wanted to let you know because I literally was thinking that last night. Oh, I was putting them on, and I was like, oh, I need to tell Kendall about these because at this point I'm on like the third sheet, and there's like two more in there. Oh, amazing. And I'm like, every time I put it on, you know, it's getting everything it needs to get, and I don't feel like I'm wasting any. And sometimes I feel so bad when I waste a pimple patch and it doesn't come out with anything, and I'm like, dang, that was like two dollars. Calculating how much per pimple patch. So frustrating. Okay, well, that's good to know. But yeah, I'll send you a link so that you can have that. Thank you. Of course. Well, okay, so let's talk about the black business of the week. So, this black business of the week is called For God's Nation. For God's Nation is a clothing brand which is operated primarily online. He does pop-up sometimes, and uh uh we actually have like some cute little products that he makes. So For God's Nation is a uh clothing line that is this is really cute. Like, this is a blue one, that's a pink one. Yeah, and they have like these super cute, like intricate designs. I don't know if you can like see that pretty well, but yeah. Um he does shirts, he does sweatshirts, hats. There is definitely a whole catalog of clothing that you can um look into, and the primary goal is just to spread the word of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ per him, his words is himself, um, and just spreading awareness about that and letting people tap into it and being able to just spread the gospel, honestly. And so it's a beautiful mission, it's a beautiful clothing brand. Um, yeah, honestly, I'm trying to think about what else I wanted to say about it, but you know, we've been working with them. My business has been working with them for a call minutes, and uh yeah, we're excited to see the journey of for God's nation and the message that we can really spread with clothing, and because clothing it talks, you know, people really look at what you wear and they have a message about you just from what you have on before even speaking to you. So this is a really cool uh project to be on. It's not necessarily a project, more so of a message and a brand to be aligned with. So definitely check that out. Their link to their website will be in the description as well as all of their socials if you want to learn more. And also in the description, we have Vibe Check too. So if you want to like read exactly what that person had to say about their business, you can do that from Vibe Check. So just wanted to point that out.
SPEAKER_01Amazing, awesome. Yeah, love the love the message, and I every time that you wear this, yeah, get so many compliments, like it's just it's it's so cute.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. And one just um when I got that hat too, he had a pink and green one, uh, and I almost did it, but I was like, girl, you don't even wear pink and green that often anymore. Like when I had first crossed, every day was pink and green, yeah. But now I'm I'm about four or five years removed, so it's like I really do I really need the pink and green.
SPEAKER_01Maybe you can spin back on it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so you have special occasions, exactly. But I didn't really need the pink and green for everyday wear. Yeah, so he has so many different colorways, and if you go to the pop-up events too, there's more custom things than what's on the website. So I would just say, like, follow on social media because like even today, there's a pop-up event going on, and that's where he is. And I'm sure he has like custom clothing design just for that event or just something that he might have thought of that might not be on the website. So pretty cool. Definitely check it out. Follow them on social media. I love I love everything that they have. I need to get more things, but I am a hat girly. I've learned that about myself. I do love a good hat, so the catalog is growing, yeah, probably. So I love it. Me too. But yeah, if you have a black-owned business, this is a great time to say. If you have a black-owned business or if you know anyone who owns and operates and does a really good job, it could be food, it could be clothing, it could be technology, it can literally be whatever, as long as it's black-owned, credible, of course, reputable, of course. Um, definitely click that black-owned business spotlight request form in the description and submit those black businesses. We'd love to give them a shout-out, we'd love to talk about them, go and experience them for ourselves. So do us a favor, help us out, help them help, you know, help us help you at the end of the day. Let us help you out. Right, let us help you out. Exactly, exactly. Perfect.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, we could get into our topic of the week.
SPEAKER_03Topic of the week, which is hustle culture, hustle culture, specifically in your 20s, because like that's what we can do. What we can speak to. I don't know about hustle culture in your 30s, 40s, 50s, so on and so forth, but I know hustle culture in your teens and in your 20s. And yeah, that's a topic. Nothing, not said, hustle culture, period. Okay, let's talk about it because I feel like we've been talking about like wellness, we talked about all the things that we're doing, right? Some of the setbacks that we had along the way, our values, and uh, I just feel like it's Kendall and I both feel like it's just an appropriate, appropriate time to talk about hustle culture and the impact that it's kind of had on us in a way. So I'll let you leave, girl.
SPEAKER_01I'll let you lead. Um, I think it would be good to start with like what we even think hustle culture is, because we were kind of before we sit down and talk about a topic, we don't ever sit down and go like line atom by line atom. Yeah, no, the conversation just unfolds, but we always are like, okay, girl, like what are you thinking? And we kind of just started talking about what hustle culture means to us. So I guess that's what we'll where we'll start. But when I think hustle culture, I really do envision the words that come to mind are like nine to five, corporate, side hustle, multiple streams of income, businesses, um, you're booked and you're busy. Like all of those terms come to mind when I think about that. And I was telling Steph, there's just a duality about how I feel about it. There's one side of it where I am very much in alignment with that lifestyle. I want to be booked and busy and have exciting things going on and have something to show for myself. And I love when I look at my calendar and I feel like it's full and I have a lot going on. Like that does make me happy. But then there's another side of it where it feels overwhelming. It feels a little too competitive and it feels a little too much, like it's taking up too much real estate in my mind to constantly be thinking about improving and now what's next. And am I even really sitting in the moment that I'm in right now and feeling content in it, or am I just always running towards something? And I think even social media has amplified that a lot. So that brings in more of the competitive aspect of it's not just me competing with me. I'm I feel like I'm opening up Instagram and like low-key comparing what I have going on to what everyone else has going on because everyone's always somebody's always launching a business. Somebody's always putting something in front of you to buy, something's all something's always happening in someone's life that it's a lot to consume. And even just the world we live in, like the the country we live in, capitalists. So it's you always are seeing advertising, marketing. There's always something new and innovative pushing something forward. And so it's I wanna be I wanna be in step with all of that, but then sometimes stuff just feels like it's moving so fast that I can't even comprehend it, I can't even wrap my head around it. So that's what hustle culture is to me, and I think this episode it would be good to just talk about how I've I guess dealt with it, right? Like how what where do I fit in all of that and what has come up for me when I think about that concept. But I'll pause there and like let you talk about what it means to you, but that's what comes up for me.
SPEAKER_03I concur. I really don't have much to add, but I agree with that. I feel in alignment, yet I still feel like things might be moving too fast and it's overwhelming. Yeah, because I mean I can remember being like, yeah, I'm I'm hustle culture down, like that's me. Like, I love this. But then there's been moments where I'm like, actually, no, come somebody please come rescue me. Like, do I have to subscribe? I mean, you don't have to do anything, but it just feels there's so much pressure. At the end of the day, that's the word pressure, especially just. Us being very ambitious, women in general, high achievers, and just wanting so much out of life while we're here and while we have it, the pressure just feels immense. It feels like there's an elephant that's about to step on my head and like I'm trying to hold the weight of it up. And that's hard. So let's get into it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Before we really get into it, that just reminds me of something from our values episode that I learned about myself when I took it. Um, and something you said just made me think of it. But my top value being eudaimonia, which if you haven't listened to that episode, please do. It's so good. We talk about our values, and then we also provide the quiz that we took the values or we learned what our values were. Um, so you can also do it as well. It's it's a super, super informative um assessment. But my top value being eudaimonia, which is prioritizing joy and happiness and contentment in your life, and you want your life to be centered around experiences that make you feel that. But also the top value of mine is affluence. And those two the quiz will literally tell you what are at odds in your values, but those two are at odds because I want to have wealth for the purpose of having freedom, having options, having choices, um, and having stability. But then you have to make sacrifices on how much you're willing to just have a life that just feels nice and I'm at peace, and because you can't really have both. Like there's always gonna be a trade-off. So the the quiz told me that there's that's a trade-off for me. And that is something that you know when you said you say your hustle culture down, then when it's time to actually get in there and do it, you learn so much about yourself, like, all right, wait, but who I actually am and what I thought that I wanted to do or be, it may not always be what you thought it was gonna be. You might actually be up all the time working and realizing I feel like I'm not truly living life, versus another person might do that and think this is what life is. So you have to know yourself. But I think where we could start is just the question of like, because you said you had times where you're like, please someone save me. Like, what were some of the times where you felt like it hustle culture became overwhelming to you? Like the times where it no longer felt empowering, but it felt like you know, maybe I'm like overworking myself.
SPEAKER_03I think right now, with the phase of life that I'm in, ever since I left my job, I feel like that was a catalyst event. Like that was the canon event in my life. You know how in um Marvel movies are like this was the canon event that like changed everything. I feel like that literally was how that was for me because once I left that job, everything just started to unfold. Before I left, I started my LLC, but didn't have any clients or anything like that. I just kind of started it as like a stay ready so you don't have to get ready sort of moment and had that kind of just going in the background. And then once I left, I had maybe a week and a half, two weeks, maybe three, maybe three, I'll say, where I wasn't really doing much. Like I was just kind of like in limbo, waiting for the next thing to come through. But like I was right when I left, it was like boom, okay, yeah, just got a social media client for my business. Then boom, just got this part-time job, and then boom, just got another social media client, and then everything just kind of happened and cascaded so quickly, and then I was like, okay, cool. So now I have the nine to five, and then I also have the five to nine, and I think it's getting to the point now, because then the part-time went full-time. Now I've got more on that plate, and then the clients that I'm working with, like we're progressing, we're growing, and now it's like the plate is very full. Now I'm trying to make room for the things that I actually want to do, such as businesses that I actually want to work with, investments that I want to start making, making time for me. True, like I'm not even like talking about going to the gym, meal prepping, reading, and like doing the things that actually pour into me. Like, that's not even on the in the picture right now, you know? And so I think right now it's getting to the point where it's like, okay, at what cost? What do I actually want out of this? Like, where do I see myself going with XYZ client? You know, is this something that I can see long term, or am I just doing this for the for the check at the end of the day? And so I think that's kind of where I'm at right now. And I've been weighing that for a good couple months and going into like the end of the year because so much has changed in the year, which makes me know like when I see how much in my life has changed in a short amount of time, I know when I look forward, I can't even begin to conceptualize what my life will look like six months from now, too. Yeah, because six months ago, none of a lot of the things in my life right now did not exist. The podcast, the full-time job, you know, like even some of the brands that we work with couldn't have even guessed that. So I always like just want to allow space, which is why I like to think more about okay, what do I want out of this? What do I want to create? What do I want out of quote unquote hustle culture versus what I don't want? Because if I focus on what I do want, I'm allowing and creating the space for that to come in. So I think that shortly after leaving my job, like that September, October, when it's like the great lock in, you know, I'm like, okay, we're hustle culture down, like we're getting to it, like I'm in the great lock in, I'm getting my work done, I'm editing these videos, I'm cranking it out. And then I think I got to just a point where I was like, okay, what are we what are we doing this for? Hold up, like, what actually is the goal now? Because you get everything you want, and then you question, wait, did I actually even want this in the first place? So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, and I think that's what is making me pause a lot more lately, is that I have so far just been speed running to a bunch of things, and when I get there, it's low-key underwhelming, and I'm like, okay, why do I feel like this? You know? Um and I don't want my whole life to feel that way. So that is that aspect of hustle culture, which is constant putting output, that's the part that we're rejecting. Yeah. Because yeah, you can make better decisions and know what's best for you because you'll come to an answer about what you want to do with your business and how you want to split your time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's just getting to a point where I think I did rush into wholesale hustle culture because I felt like I was escaping something, like I was doing my best to escape the life that I was living mentally, physically, emotionally, so on and so forth. And it's almost like you're running so fast to get on the train because you think you're about to miss it. You're about to miss the train, right? And you're running, you're running, you're running, you finally get on the train, the train is moving, and you're like, phew, I made it. But then you realize you look up, oh, the train is going in the complete opposite direction of where I actually wanted to go. Right. And uh, that's how I felt with like the businesses that I started, the jobs that I got, and I'm like, okay, we're moving in the right direction, we're moving in a direction. Then you get and you realize, is this actually what I want to be doing? And so now I have to hop off the train, reassess, let me orientate my map, you know, and see what direction I actually want to be going in, and then hop on that train instead.
SPEAKER_01That actually makes total sense. Like, I'm glad you said it that way. It's such a good visual to exactly what that feels like. Yeah, it definitely feels better than being stagnant. So then you're you're happy to just be moving. I'm doing something. I'm doing something, I'm doing something. But then enough time passes where you look up at the direction and you're like, wait a minute. Like, am I sure that I want to be going there instead of maybe somewhere else? Which is okay. Like, that's life. You are able to change your mind. You hope you think about it. You hop there, you come over here, you try that out, you know. Totally normal. But I relate to that more than you know because I would say the first time that I realized I'm doing a lot, like maybe I'm leaning too much into the like over-hustling, was in college. And like in a past episode, I mentioned that there was like a year in college where I just was feeling so stagnant and helpless and just a victim to so many of my circumstances. Like, I had a lot going on at one point, and there just came a time where I was like, I just don't want to feel this way anymore. Like, I actually do have the resources and the tools to do something else. And what are we gonna do? What like waste our life away, like waste our college years away. It's just, you know, I just wanted to up and do something. Um, and so that year that I decided to up and do something, I like up and decided to do something. I was doing everything, like it wasn't a single club, event, networking situation, experience, new friends, new people, new classes, like new job. I just wanted to do whatever, and I was not saying no to anything because I was tired of living my life on the sidelines, like we've talked about in the past. I had an internship that then rolled over, like it extended, um, but it kind of became more of a full-time role because my hours were literally 40 hours a week. So it was technically still an internship, but I was I had real responsibilities, like I was an employee, and I still had to go to class. And I remember that semester just being so heavy. And I was also, again, trying to be on more e-boards. So I remember I was on e-board for a couple of orgs. Um, I was trying to meet more people, so any event that would just pop up, oh, we're doing a 20 yard, I'm there. I was just always doing something. And I remember running to class, I had homework due for that class, or I had a test for that class. So I'm like studying for it on the way to the class. Let's say we take the test, then after we get to like the instruction, I have my work laptop open next to my personal computer because I'm doing something that needs to get done by let's say the class is at 1 p.m. This needs to get done by two. So I'm doing this, but I'm also trying to take notes because this is going to be important for whatever is coming up next in this class. But then in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, oh gosh, we have an event tonight for this like club that I'm a part of. And I was like the secretary, so that's all things communications, organization. I have people I need to respond to. So then I'm thinking about that. It every single day. Every single day was like that. By the time Saturday rolled around, I wanted to lay down, but then that wasn't hitting my social goals because I was tired of having like one and a half friends. I wanted to get out more. One and a half one and a half and a half friends.
SPEAKER_03I can't even say a cat because you didn't even have the cat. I didn't even have my cat at that point.
SPEAKER_01Because my one and a half friends, girl. I don't know. I just was tired of being up in my room all the time. You know, I was like, girl, get outside and meet people. So it's like, no, there's something going on. Saturday I need to be there, and then Sunday was brunch, and I need to be there. Like everything was just needing to be there. Yeah. And I was so stressed out. I remember, like, I look back at what I looked like at that time. I was like malnourished. My skin, the skin thing is always a thing when I'm stressed. My skin was always breaking out. I couldn't figure out why my energy levels were so low. And I'm looking back, like, well, you just had way too much going on. Was it all in a good direction? Did I like the job? It was a PR agency. Did I like PR? Yeah. Did I like the clubs I was in? Yeah. Did I love the love, the people and the experiences that I was having? Yeah. But it all was way, way, way too much. That was the first time that I can remember just reassessing, is this worth it? Is this really worth my mental health now feeling like it's in shambles? But I'm doing a lot, I'm outputting a lot. Like I remember I won an award at this scholarship that I applied for, and it just felt like such a pat on the back, but it also just felt it was such a strange feeling. I was like, I'm doing all this work. I'm there's so much I'm getting recognized for right now, but I was genuinely so exhausted. I was so exhausted. Spring break happened like shortly after I won the award, went on spring break, and I don't even think that was able to, I didn't help me recover. And that was like a week of just being on the beach. I came back and I still just felt overwhelmed. Like it was just a tire that was just in my bones. Yeah. And I'm not that girl. Like I'm not that girl. Even now, I wouldn't even say I'm working as hard as I was back then. I never want to work that hard again.
SPEAKER_03And it's because it's just not in the funny thing to say, but I feel you.
SPEAKER_01I never want to work that hard again because no. First of all, like it wasn't fun. It wasn't, I wasn't having fun. I mean, I was having fun, but it wasn't fun overall because of what I realized I was sacrificing, which was sleep, which was time with myself. Like a hobby? What hobbies?
SPEAKER_03Did they exist? No, I didn't have no hobbies.
SPEAKER_01I wasn't doing anything for me. The gym, I wasn't even a gym girl back then, but if I was, I certainly wouldn't have been there. So I was just up all the time working and thinking about the next thing. Like it was extremely exhausting. I was also in the middle of writing my thesis because I was a researcher. That thesis was like 50 to 60 pages long. Tell me about it. So much work went into that. It was so much going on. So that was the first time I've experienced it. I've experienced little pockets of feeling overworked ever since. But I think I just have boundaries in my mind of where I'm willing to go and where I'm not willing to go. And I just, my boss said something to me that was I use it all the time. I say it to myself all the time because I came to her um maybe a couple months ago, just stressed out about a project that I'm trying to get off the ground at work and it's not going as fast as I want because little things keep coming up every day that I have to do. So spending time building this new project is taking longer. And she was like, give yourself a long runway. She was like, Stop trying to get everything done in one week, two weeks. If it needs a long runway, just build that in. That way you don't feel like you're behind, but you gave yourself a realistic timeline. And so that's what I do now. I give myself the longest of possible runways and I don't feel guilty about it anymore. And if I do start to feel guilty, I rewire my brain. And that's what I've been doing with like my business. That has taken so long. And I wish I could just have snapped fingers and had everything together and just have my clients. But I'm so stressed out in a lot of other areas of my life that if I don't have time to do this today, the runway is long because it's my runway, it's my timeline. When it's supposed to happen, it will happen. When I have everything together, it is together. So I just try to like rework the perspective because I've definitely been there where we're on the train. It's like, thank God it's moving. Yeah. Choo choo. Choo choo. Thank God we're moving somewhere, but you just it's not worth any of these other things that are very important to me, which is just time to myself, time with my family, time with my friends, time in nature, time to do absolutely nothing, to be a couch bum. I I like to be bummy sometimes. I don't need every single moment of my life to look perfect. Sometimes I'm I'm just at home looking crazy on my couch all day, and I need those days. I was telling you before we started filming, I just feel so mentally fogged right now, and it's really just because I've not had a day to just like be, just be. Yeah, I always have to see somebody, I always have to go somewhere, I always have to do something, and it's not sustainable for me. Yeah, so I'm trying to lean out of that aspect of hustle culture because I do want to be ambitious, but I don't want it to intrude on so many other parts of my life that really do prioritize going slow.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I also feel like one of the experiences where I did experience hustle culture is very similar to yours, and it did happen whilst in college. And that's one of I think I talked about that on what led me to wellness because after that year, after that semester, what whatever gap of time that was, it got to a point where it was like, Hoo child, like you need to structure and prioritize things differently. And we need a whole episode needs to be done done on how to balance a quote unquote full-time job because it could be part-time, but I mean, I feel like our internship experiences of it being demanding are very similar. It's crazy, right? A lot of it's both type of experience. Yeah, but yet we're technically like employees, like they're literally treating us as like a full-time employee. And I've definitely had that experience where okay, like I understand this organization has goals, but I think they're missing the fact that I'm also a student, but also should they care, you know, because you did apply to be a part of this internship and knowing what it was going to take. Well, personally, I didn't really know exactly. They should definitely carry your responsibility.
SPEAKER_01I think they should care the game, and that's what all internship, you know.
SPEAKER_03Like if somebody came to me applying for an internship, their role would be very like narrow. Like they're gonna have things to do for sure, and it's gonna move the needle, but I'm not gonna have them doing all these presentations and like if they want to speak to key opinion leaders and managers and SVPs and all that, sure. But that's not gonna be their duty, you know what I'm saying? So I feel like I got thrusted into this position where I'm like in front of stakeholders, I'm speaking to the board, I'm doing all these things, and I'm like, that's a lot of trust for an intern anyway.
SPEAKER_01Literally an intern call something you need to put you in that position.
SPEAKER_03Which is cool because I got that experience, but this can be a lot. This is a lot, it actually was a lot. So that was like one of the experiences in whole hustle culture that led me to wellness. But at that time, I didn't think of it as hustle culture. I literally just thought of it as like, I'm doing this, I'm doing that, I'm doing this. And I'm a social butterfly, so I love that, you know. But there was points and times where, like you said, like I needed to just be. And I don't think I really understood that about myself, that I did need to just be because I was not a person who just could go and like spend the whole day alone. I'd be like, okay, it's dinner time. Who am I going to eat with? You know what I'm saying? So yeah, I think that being ambitious in general is going to be one of the things that ultimately leads you to kind of be quote unquote victim to hustle culture because I think that just us as like ambitious, high-achieving women in general, we're going to fall victim to that in some way. But with that, you know, how do you pivot and know when it's time to take that step back? How do you know if you are a victim of hustle culture? I think you can feel that in your bones. Like, I think you can feel like I'm feeling overwhelmed. I'm feeling overwhelmed. How do I work through this? So yeah, I really just loved everything that you touched on, especially because it does start all the way back there. And my brain doesn't even go there anymore because I feel like that was the part of my life that's over, and like I'm on a new chapter, and I can't keep going back to the chapters and referencing that for you know, just going forward. I just can only look ahead. And I realized this when I was on a meeting the other day. It was like some sort of where was I? I can't remember. Oh, I was in um like one of the healing lounges, and the topic was present, like staying present. And one of my struggles is staying in the present because I'm always thinking about the future. But I think a lot of people also have a hard time staying in the present because they're always thinking about the past. And I just think I'm the reverse. Like I'm always thinking about the future, I'm always thinking ahead. I don't really have time to think about what happened back then. Like, you know, that happened was was going forward. And so I think that's one of the things with me when it comes to just ambition and why I do what I do in general, because I am always thinking about the future. I am always thinking about what would future me do, what is my highest version of myself going to do? How can I how quickly can I merge the timeline and be that person? But that kind of stuff just doesn't happen overnight, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_01It doesn't, yeah. And they say if you focus a lot on the past, it's like more so the cause of depression. Yeah. And then a lot more on the future is anxiety.
SPEAKER_03Exactly.
SPEAKER_01And I do both. Yeah. I'm a ruminator, and then I also do think about the future as well. So there's times in my life where I feel more anxious, and it's because I'm just constantly trying to see, analyze the situation from every possible way and predict every outcome and be prepared. I always say, I'm just gonna be prepared, but you know, you're also just masking that you're overthinking. And then there's times where I do think about the past a lot. Um, because I also try to, I think that's also me trying to be prepared. It's me trying to learn from past lessons that I've had, and I don't like to make the same mistake twice because the first time I make it, I do give myself a lot of grace. Yeah. But the second, third, fourth times, I start to feel like, what are we not learning here? And that one, I think just the concept of burnout, that was probably one of the first times I truly felt burnout, but it keeps happening at little moments that it brings me back to that moment because I just try to form patterns in my life. Like I try to just create, I try to make everything make sense in my mind. I think I'm a very emotional person, but I'm also so logical. Yeah. And it just needs to make sense. And when it doesn't, I get stuck there. That's probably what's happening. So yeah, I maybe it was easier in school because the achievements were very Tangible, like okay, at the end of the road, though, I got hand claps, I got awards, but now the burnout that I feel is genuinely like then the day just keeps going. Okay, cool. Then I gotta still clock in tomorrow. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. I'm burnt out. Well, this is the job we're paying you to do. Like, there is a lot less grace. I could break down as a student and be like, I am just overwhelmed.
SPEAKER_03Your teacher might be like, All right, you know, like it's let's give you an extension on this assignment. Yeah, da da da.
SPEAKER_01But but now it's like, well, okay, and we're all burnt out. So what are you gonna do about it? Like, and nobody really just has it. You're an adult, basically. Yeah, and yeah, there have been recent instances of me feeling extremely burnt out, but now lately it's a lot less to do with just pure work, and it's it's always just work plus other stuff, and that's what's tripping me up. It's work is having to get done, but I'm also dealing with so much else. Yeah, blending work and personal life has really been a challenge, and making sure I'm showing up in all avenues, but that's a different conversation, you know. But is it?
SPEAKER_03I mean, it kind of is, and it kind of is it does contribute to hustle culture, but I feel like it more so contributes to burnout and how to balance everything versus just hustle culture.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, let's just keep it that could be a whole different topic.
SPEAKER_03No, seriously, like we really could talk about that when it comes to burnout. I did literally read something that was like people think that you can get over burnout in a week, like actually recovering from burnout takes a lot longer. Like your nervous system literally has to reset, and you can't do that in a weekend, you can't do that in a couple of days. Like, a trip is not gonna solve that for you. Like, yeah, it's not, you need literal like months.
SPEAKER_01It needs to be a structural change, it's not a all right, I'm just gonna lay out by the beach for a little bit and then we'll be back, or the same concept of missing sleep. Like, okay, I'm gonna just make up for the sleep. You don't make it. There's no such thing, yeah.
SPEAKER_03You are in a sleep deficit. Like you have to, if you are six hours in a sleep deficit, you can't just sleep six hours and like make it up. Like it's like an extra hour every single night for the next seven to ten days to make up for that deficit and then some. Yeah, and that that's hard. I'm barely even getting seven hours. What do you mean, make up an hour?
SPEAKER_01Like, yeah, it's it's really just a priorities thing for me. Um, and it's been a part of why it's been easier for me to not feel because there is just still this feeling of I just feel so guilty when I'm not doing something. And I wouldn't say it's 100% cured, but because it still kind of exists, like I still there's just like this internal voice in my mind that's like, but you could be doing this, or like you need to be doing that, or you're not moving fast enough here. You need to be, it's like it's just always criticizing what I have going on, even when it's trying to be positive, it's still but like, okay, good job, but we could, you know, it's always a butt, like it's always a butt. Um but right, no pun intended. Slightly chuckle. My priorities changing as I've gotten older. Have it has helped me not to feel so guilty about rest because there are so many high performing people, there's so many just not even high performing, just regular people who are just hardworking, like your parents, your your aunts, your uncles that have so many health problems, back is is a mess, or like they have sleep issues, or they just have trouble um relaxing because their brain is always spinning. And none of these issues are to be taken lightly. The joke that moms are never able to sit down because they are just so used to like holding the entire family together, and when they finally get their day off, they're up vacuuming. People joke, but it's not a joke. People don't know how to sit down, and then they're going to the doctor and they have all of these health problems that they don't know where it came from. Why is my blood pressure always high? Why do I have diabetes? Why do I have Alzheimer's? It's all linked to this such a hot, like we're just living such a stressful world, and it's people are breaking down, and I just refuse. I refuse. There is no goal of mine that is that serious where I'm excusing behavior now that's like, well, but let me just crank it out. I'm just not that person. Like, I know people say, You're in your 20s, you have all this energy. This is the time where you need to be, so that way you can have a soft life. This soft life that they're promising at 30, 40, 50. Yeah, it's like they're dangling, like you know, like a carrot or a diamond or something. You keep sprinting to it, and you're gonna think you're getting there, and then you you create more pro like it's it's a never-ending cycle. And I think the movie Soul perfectly perfect. That's why it's one of my favorite movies, perfectly encapsulates what that looks like when you are constantly like running to something. So it's not easy now because I get so swept up in the day-to-day. I get so swept up in what I have going on, what everyone has going on, all these opportunities. I know so many cool people. It's like, y'all, let's all collab. Let's all we we sit down, we got these business ideas, y'all. We could all be rich tomorrow if we just locked in. And no, seriously. Everything sounds so, so, so good. But in practice, I just have realized I'm the kind of person that just gets tired easily. And it's like, why am I trying to fight that when I know I'm just a person that needs to be a little bit more chill? I don't need to have an obligation every day. And lately that's been that way, and I see what's happening to myself. Like, I'm so burnt out, you know. So, yeah, a combination of knowing who you are, but also just like waking up to a little bit of the smoke and mirrors behind what is what exactly is hostile culture gonna give you? Like, what exactly are you gaining out of it? Yeah, I think I wrote down like what are we chasing? Yeah, and it's like you have to know for yourself what exactly are you chasing, or else you can get so swept up in a lot if you're not intentional, if you're not clear.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's like that thing where you have to write down your overall mission and vision statement for your life and really envision. That's why vision boards are like so powerful to me, even though 2026, you know, she got a Pinterest board, she didn't necessarily get a vision board, but it I still got visuals, they're not just put together on one sheet of paper just yet, you know, yeah, it's not over yet. It's okay. But when you make those kind of statements, it just helps you to keep going. Like when you reference your your vision statement or your mission statement for your life, because you know, they make them for businesses, um, and that keeps the employees like constantly moving towards a common goal. But when you do that for your life, I feel like that really helps you to just keep envisioning, okay, this is what I'm waking up, this is what I'm doing it for. At one of my jobs when I used to interview, one of the questions that we used to ask is what is one of your biggest motivations in life? And for a lot of people, it was kids, you know, they had kids, and there was a moment in time where I was like, dang, maybe I need to pop one out to keep me motivated. No do listen. No, I'm not gonna do it, no, I'm not gonna do it. But I was like, dang, everybody's saying they're kids, maybe I need a kid to keep me motivated.
SPEAKER_01There's gotta be another way.
SPEAKER_03There's gotta be something else. There's gotta be something else. But for a lot of people, it was just like the life that I see for myself, and I think that's what one of my biggest struggles is, is because like whenever I think about taking a break or you know, giving myself rest without feeling guilty, I always just think about the life that I want to live in, the life that I am literally trying to create every single day. And it just gets so frustrating because I know that I'm so close, but I'm so far. And it's hard for me to literally rest without feeling guilty because there is always something that can be done. Like even last night when we got back, I was sitting here and I was like, okay, I could do my nails, I could edit this video, I could edit a video, I could put this coffee table together, or I could, you know, straighten up the kitchen. There was like just so many things that I could have done. And I literally just I got to a point where I got in the shower and I just chose sleep because I was tired of thinking of all the things that I could be doing. Yeah. And it's like, okay, well, if I do my nails, I'm not editing the dialysis problem. Exactly. I just was like, no, I'm just gonna go to sleep, and this is tomorrow's problem. Because it is today's problem.
SPEAKER_01And that's such a healthy like coping mechanism or strategy because where you could have just continued to go in a circle all night long, maybe you would have picked something eventually so tired, yeah, just even mentally from even doing that. The decision, like, nah, sis, let's just go to bed because this is all gonna get done tomorrow, regardless. You choosing not to stress out is already a step forward. True, because you didn't waste time on that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I could have been up all night trying to do all of them and then gotten no sleep and been here today looking like a zombie. Like, makeup can't cure everything, not enough concealer in the world. Yeah, I would have just been looking real crazy, but yeah, but then you know, I'm still thinking about the fact that I chose not to do anything and just chose to go to sleep, and now I'm like, okay, but I still need to edit this and I still need to do these freaking toes. Yeah, so I'm tired of looking crazy. So I know, and then there's like the outsourcing part, right? When it does come to hustle culture and the things that to free up your time, the things that you can just outsource, you know. But right now, I just feel like at this point, I'm not ready to outsource anything. Like, I they say before you outsource anything, you need to know how to do it and how to do it well. You're in your in-the-field era, right? Exactly. And maybe I'm tired of being in the field, but that's just the era of life I'm in. And I just want to close these timelines, I want to close the gap in these timelines so bad. And that is what keeps me going. That's what keeps me motivated because I know and I see the life that I want for myself very clearly, but it just gets exhausting. And I think where I get exhausted is the fact that I'm not there yet. Like, that's what frustrates me the most. It's like I feel like I'm doing my best to make progress, but the progress is so minimal that it feels like, is this even worth it? And then the grand scheme of things, like when I zoom out, the progress is not minimal, but it feels like that in the moment.
SPEAKER_01Progress is certainly not minimal. Yeah, it's certainly not. I feel that you're in a different place in your life now than you were at the beginning of the year, than six months ago, and six months ago. And I don't know. I think the progression of your life has been one to learn from. So maybe that is again the inner critic that's like, okay, it's not moving, because you're with yourself day in, day out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So, and I know I don't know the full story just looking at you from afar, of course, but you're also 25. So it's like, where else would you be right now? Yeah. Because to be honest, I don't think most 25s are where you are. You know what I mean? Like most 25, most 25-year-olds haven't been able to live on their own, haven't been able to then have a full-time job, to then have another business that has multiple clients, to then also have their own brand, to then be traveling to all these places and then being able to document in a way that then creates exposure and visibility and revenue for you. Like it's like, what the hell are you talking about?
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh. Whenever you're talking about, like, I'm trying to be like chill right now. Whenever you start being saying shit like that, I'm sorry, we can cut this out. But whenever you start saying something like that, I just be like, what are you talking about?
SPEAKER_03It's just hard. It's literally just hard. Like when you zoom out, yes, but it's just hard.
SPEAKER_01I know, I know you you have where you want to be. It's the achievement. You just have to like, you gotta just put it into perspective. I know there are there is a different type of 25-year-old you could be right now. Yeah, that's true. So it's people who are older than you come to you for advice. Like, you know what I mean? You are on track, yeah, and it's nothing worth having comes overnight. Yes. And you wouldn't want it overnight. If it came overnight, it would be something really, really shady and something that you didn't even really want for real. Yeah. So you gotta just trust in the process.
SPEAKER_03And that's hustle culture right there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, honestly making me feel like that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's it's that pressure. Yeah. Sometimes I need people like you to put stuff into perspective.
SPEAKER_01No, but I and I'm always here to do that. Because yeah, when I'm in my own head and somebody will tell me something, I'm like, oh, well, we won't when you say it like that. Right. You know, like you're not thinking that every single day because it just becomes your life. You just kind of become jaded to certain things. But there's nothing about your life that is not exceptional, you know, even when you're failing, you're failing exceptionally. Like, I don't even know. Not like you're failing exceptionally, but like the failure is just the way that you even learn lessons is like, I don't know, girl. Girl, I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_03Like, I I need I need that. I need to hear that sometimes. Girl, of course. But I appreciate you for even putting that into perspective for me because then I'm like, I'm sorry, y'all. Actually, don't listen to anything that I'm gonna do.
SPEAKER_01Nah, and it was like, but it's crazy because I could have kept going. Like, I feel like I only just barely scratched the surface of what I feel like is good about you and what you have going on. So it's you know, just remember that.
SPEAKER_03I appreciate you. And that's one thing to just like pause and really just like take note of in general when it comes to things such as hostile culture. Like for me, being just like an ambitious person, like there's always gonna be more. There's always gonna be more that I could do, there's always gonna be more that I feel like I could do, like, even on like a day of 24 hours, like I will go to bed at one o'clock and still feel like I could stay up and do more. But I'm literally just shutting off. Like, I'm literally being like, no, go to bed. Like, there have been nights where I've had to do that to myself because I could legit be staying up. And there's a thing, like, there's flow state too. Like, when I genuinely feel like I'm in flow state and I haven't felt that way in a while, and I'm like, I want to keep this going, but then there's the healthy part of just being like, no, like you still need rest. Yeah, you know, you can resume flow state tomorrow. How do you even get into flow state? All that stuff. But yeah, I definitely feel like I don't do perspective enough when it comes to just being a hustler and being part of hustle culture. And girl, I could go down the freaking list for you on the same note, like girl, no, we ain't gonna do all that. Like we could sit here and have three whole books on like all the things, just like even you throwing it back to college, you know, like even going that far as to when hustle culture started. Like, hustle culture doesn't start for a lot of people until after us, for real. Like 27, 28, and then they realize, oh shit, like let me get my life together.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I guess so. I think I threw it back to college too, because that's when I really felt at the most, I felt the most tethered to that mentality. Yeah, like I I didn't even have the confidence to be like, I actually want something different from myself. I just saw, I mean, Howard is a school full of hustlers, I saw everybody get into it, and I was like, well, it's time for me to get to it at all cost or at any cost. Yeah, and now I just know what I'm gonna say no to. I'm not doing it. Yeah, get somebody else to do it, or I know how to tell myself, like talk to myself in a better way. So I don't have as many experiences of burnout anymore, but I it's always there. The temptation's always there. Like I had an Alani phase. Yeah, I was cranking those out and staying up to whatever time to just get stuff done because yeah, when you hit that flow state of something that has been a mental block for so long, it feels so good to just get it done. I don't care if it's four in the morning. Yeah, literally. I don't care, I'll wake up tomorrow on time and I'll get what I have to do done. I might be tired, but at least this is getting done. Right. But I am trying so hard to just have better boundaries now because I don't think that I'm gonna be able to have that mentality and then just snap out of it years down the line as much as we would want to. I'm trying to like do that now so that it's just a common practice for myself to go to bed even when that to-do list is full. Yeah, because it's it can get done tomorrow. Like I try to remind myself it it just can. Okay, you hit the goal a little bit later, but you hit the goal happy and rested, and you're a little in it's every day is not peaceful like that. There are some days where I'm just grinding it out, but I try to look at that as a season of like, okay, this cup this week, this is what has to get done. Not my whole year was spent in survival like that or just trying to get trying to grind something out, but it's also just deeper than action for me. It I think what's so hard about not like going into that type of a spiral is that it's just so tied to who I am.
SPEAKER_00Like my entire life, my entire life, I have been in some type of accelerated program where I was in tag, I was my whole life.
SPEAKER_01I have no idea how to do anything else. Yeah. So it's I don't know how to take a chill pill. I don't know how to do that. How do you take it easy? Yeah, like let me know something. What does that even mean? Let me know something because I just don't even know what how else to be. Like there's just never been a scenario where I've gotten somewhere and I've haven't thought to myself, I'm about to be the best.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_01Even if I'm just competing with myself, like I just have something to prove to myself at all times. And I do love that about myself because it's created a life that I really enjoy. Exactly. But yeah, those boundaries, like, okay, but how far are we willing to go? Right. And yeah, I just there is a part of me that ties my self-worth to my accomplishments. Like I would be lying if I said I had a year where I was just stagnant and I wouldn't feel low-key like a failure in some way. And that's something that I probably just have to sit with and unpack why I feel that way. I kind of do know because of how I grew up, and my parents weren't demanding, but they always just reminded me that I'm capable of doing really good things. So I want to make me proud. I want to make them proud. I want all of their time and investment and love and resources poured into me to mean something. Yes. I want people to look at me and just think, I'm so proud of her. Like, even when I, it's crazy. Even when I have setbacks, I always frame it in a way when I'm telling it to my parents or to other people where like I infuse the lesson I learned from it. Like I feel like I always I have to just be, I don't ever want to look like I'm just free-falling and I don't know what's going on, which is why I hold so many of my lessons that I'm going through in the moment to myself. And then after I'm like, yeah, I'll talk about it now. Now that I feel like I'm on the other side. But when I genuinely don't know what to do, I hold everything to myself because I just need everyone to feel like Kendall is somebody with her head like screwed on straight. We're not worrying about her. So that comes down to just everything. Like, I wanted to get my degrees, but I also needed my family to know that this is somebody that takes education seriously. Like, I wanted to get a nice job at a nice company that has multiple offices, so I could move around if I needed to and be a part of a large network because I want that, but also because I need my parents and my community to know that like Kendall has a good job after we just invested all this time before to go to school. So there is a part of it where now at this point I'm just so tied to all of these achievements that if I was to just stop achieving, I think I'd have a little bit of an identity crisis because now what? So that is something I think about too. Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_03I mean, even just going back to episode five, where my entire identity is tied to achievement and affluence and all these things, like in radius, like the impact that I'm able to make on people, like girl, that's my entire life, my inner dialogue is just always like if I'm not achieving, then what am I doing? Like, if I'm not working towards something, then what are you doing? If I'm I that's why I really just I can't wrap my brain around the concept of like bed rotting. You know how people be like in bed like all day, just not doing anything. Oh my gosh, like if I'm ever doing that, I am not okay. Like, you know something is wrong if I don't want to get out of bed. And there have been days where like I've not wanted to get out of bed, and that's when I know, like, oh yeah, like you need to talk to somebody, like you need to write something down, like we need to do something. Like, what grounds you right now? Okay, doing your skincare, do that. Putting on a cute outfit, do that, do something because I just know when I get to that point, it's obviously not good. But I am definitely one of the people who feels like my entire self-worth is tied to achievement, like you said, because you do feel like you have people in your corner who have poured resources and time into getting you to where you are now, and that's exactly how I feel. Like, I feel like my parents have done so much mentally, emotionally, financially, physically to help me to get to where I am. Like, even when I think about this too, I I primarily think about SMS and like the sacrifice that they literally had to make, not only to send me there, but to keep me there and make sure that you know I was moving along progressively, you know, with everybody else. But it kind of just it did make my brain kind of confused, if that makes sense, because it's like I'm in this environment with all these people who seemingly have a life handed to them, but I'm having to work for it. And so because I'm having to work for it and I have to work really hard, it's not like I could just like kind of coast and be fine. Like, no, like I actually have to work to stay. Like, some people aren't even on scholarships, you know.
SPEAKER_01Like I was just thinking when you were talking, I had an experience in college where I was talking about FAFSA.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And someone was like, What's that? Exactly.
SPEAKER_03I literally had a girl come up to me when I was talking about the school that I wanted to go to. Remember, we were talking about that in setbacks. And I was like, Yeah, you know, I'm just waiting to hear back about financial aid. And she came up and she was like, Oh, I'm so glad I don't have to worry about any of that stuff. And then walked away. Nobody asked you to contribute to this conversation, first of all. Like you can A, B, and C your way out. Like, literally. It's just such a different world. It is cool.
SPEAKER_01And yeah, you're busting your butt to be literally in the same place that they just like skated in. Skated. It's like I act handed. I just have way too much invested. Exactly. For me to act like I don't need to be in here proving something.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. And I definitely felt like I had a lot of people. Exactly. Yeah. And I think just like in general, I always feel like I have something to prove. But mostly to myself, I think I was having this conversation with you literally this week because I'm planning on getting a new computer. And I was like, Well, I have to have this done. I need to have this edited by the time I get the new computer. And my bonus coach was like, but why? Yeah. The body model. And she was like, Well, how long is the video? And I was like, Well, I actually don't know because my computer moves so slow that I can't put everything into the timeline. So I only know how long it is when I'm done. And she was like, Well, isn't that the whole point of getting a new computer? Getting the computer would make that make that a lot easier, right? And I was like, Well, actually, but but I kept trying to make like some sort of excuse as to why I was trying to prove to myself that I deserved a new computer when it's like, girl, you've been deserved a new computer. Like when you started, you know, managing different contracts, like you should have got the new computer then, but you're being smart about it and you financially plan for it. Like you already made room in the budget. Go get the computer. What are you waiting for? And it was just like, no, but I have to do this, I have to do this. And she was like, You the only person you're trying to prove something to right now is you. And I don't know why you're trying to prove that to yourself because you've constantly proved time and time again that you can finish and complete something, but you were just holding yourself back from accomplishing more by not doing this one little thing. So, all that to say, I definitely feel like my self-worth at times is tied to achievement. And I'm really like, the older I get, the more that I'm trying to re not renege, but renege, you know, like on that mindset because it's just same, it's not healthy. Like, same. If there is a day where I don't want to do anything, I should feel and actually not do anything and not feel guilty because of that, because I'm allowing myself to break the rest that I need in order to feel like a more fulfilled human being. Because at the end of the day, like we're still human, we're not robots, you know, like we can't always be doing something, you know. Yeah, I'm not, I am certainly not a robot.
SPEAKER_01I am not your AI chatbot, I'm none of those things. Right. And yeah, like to the point of just needing to get up and do something. Because I will say I I bed rot from time to time. And just even getting up and doing something to me just means like just get out the bed. Yeah. And and like make it up and just make sure you've bathed and put on some clothes. Like, if I want to do nothing that day, at bare minimum, I did that. Yeah, you know, and then okay, I can couch rod. Like, I just try to just do something little so that I'm not truly I did nothing for myself that day. But yeah, girl, like a good bed rod. I don't know. I know you don't be doing it, but yeah, I personally, because it's yeah, I think that's just what I've learned about myself. Like, I just need days where I'm not even thinking about how I'm moving nobody needle nowhere. I don't care. I because I just look around it like earth, like I'm literally on earth. Yeah, you know, like I'm this little. I try to just remind myself that like I am, this is such a beautiful world, and I'm a human being. Yeah, and it's just a crazy experience that we're even here in the first place. Like, why would every single day need to be so structured in this and that and that? I have enough structure in my life. I'm I'm not lacking structure, the structure's there. So, me critiquing times when I'm not structured just feels strange because that's something that someone who has no structure should be doing. That's not my problem. Exactly. My problem is I don't know how to relax a little bit more at times. I always feel like I gotta be doing something, so that's what I should be leaning into. And days where I really want to, I just do like I really try to just do it. It's not always perfect because there is so much that I'm passionate about, especially now with like this spring and summer energy, so many new projects, so many plans, so many ideas. It's so easy to just want to do them all. But I told you, like today, you like you I got invited to a rooftop party. I'm not going because I really did have in my mind go home, kick my feet up, do nothing. Yeah, Sunday. I really basically want tomorrow to be nothing. Maybe a couple of little like light chores around the house, but I don't really just don't want to do anything because I haven't had the chance to do that in like two weeks. Yeah, and to me, that's not okay. Like, I just know that that's not okay for my personal comfort. So yeah, it's a constant battle between I have all these goals, but also what am I if I took all that away? Like at the end of the day, if all of this burned down tomorrow, who am I? Yeah, like who who genuinely is Kendall as a person? Because there's some people where you can see who they are as people, even though they've accomplished a lot, and that's kind of like that's kind of what I want to be. Like, I know I already mentioned Solange, but that example of her just saying she's worked in wellness to her life that much to where you always think she's on vacation, but no, because she lives there and she does weekend trips, and but then Solange is also a recording artist, and we know her for all of these phenomenal albums and for all of these. She's also, I think, she maybe is a museum or it's a gallery or something. I know she curates something or has some type of collective for art. We know her for so many amazing things. We do also know her for being a person that rests a lot and takes time for herself a lot. We she's not always visible, she'll disappear for months because she's on a self-discovery path that doesn't involve output right now. Yeah, and that's genuinely who I want to be. Like, I don't need y'all, Beyonce too. Beyonce is like one of the most famous people on earth, and we will go a year from her with not hearing anything. Yeah, and she has things running at all times, just as a team, but she's also the most private person ever. And it's crazy how those two things can exist. And I'm sure Solange and Beyonce both know who they are. If you took away all of their accolades, if you if we took away Beyonce's entire music career, I'm sure she could still tell us who she is. It wouldn't be like you were taking away her entire identity. Yeah. And right now I feel like if you took away my job, my degrees, my accomplishments, my answer might shake a little. And I don't like that. And I'm I'm young, so it's like I have time to figure it out, but I don't want that to be a lifelong battle between like I'm just so tied to that because I also just I have a soul that is more than that. You know what I mean? Like, not to sound sound too like spiritual. No, I 100% that's something I think about.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I I think it's so beautiful that you talked about with Solange, she'll go, you know, there's maybe nine months where she's outputting, you know, she's in the public eye, she's at her gallery, she's putting out music, she's creating. But then there's like the three months where you don't know what she's doing. She's resting, she's on her solo trip, she's on her wellness trips, whatever she's doing, right? But we all need that time to come back to rest. That's like the literal seasons change for a reason. And that's why the leaves literally start to die, they fall, the tree like shrinks or whatever it does, right? But you need those periods of rest. Do you need those periods to really be with self to discover before you can output again? Yeah, because if you're constantly outputting, there's nothing to even pull from anyway.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And that goes back to social media a bit, and a part of why, because it if I was to try to do that right now, and I have, you know, been there's been times where I've been forced to do that. For example, like when I first came home and had nothing going on. I had to create all of my days because I didn't have a job, didn't have much really truly happening. Um it made me uncomfortable. Like it wasn't some like always constantly beautiful thing of like I just finally get to there were moments I felt that way, but for a lot of it, I also just felt so ashamed and guilty and like what am I even really doing? Yeah. Where it wasn't a it wasn't a restful time. And social media, I feel like amplifies that because there's always something going on. But I remember seeing this one creator, and I wish I remember who it was, but she said that the name of the game right now is just visibility. Everyone's like, you need to be visible, visibility is key. But she's like, it's not evergreen, like you do not always have to be visible because there are so many examples of women who are not always visible, and it creates this like air of mysteriousness around them, like you kind of are craving more from them. You gotta give people an opportunity to even just be wondering what you're up to. Yeah, wondering what's coming next because they know you're slow cooking something. Like, you know, when Beyonce's dropping album, oh, this has been slow cooking. Yeah, everybody gets some quality. It's not like sorry to my girl Taylor Swift. But I feel like she's a classic example of like sometimes it's almost too much. Yeah, you're doing something every year, and so your fans are excited, but they're also a little scared because it's like, is this gonna really be a hit or are we trying to like is this a catch grab? Like you don't want to be overly visible, and I think that's trying to find that balance. Yeah, I'm just trying to find that balance, drop it right here, but I'm trying to just remove like the shame and the guilt that I feel around those seasons where I'm not as visible, where I'm not, I don't have a million things going on. Why do I just feel so guilty? Like I don't like not having a lot going on for myself because sitting with myself sometimes it makes me ask deeper questions that I'm not sure if I'm ready to face. Yeah, you know, to be honest. So it's it's crazy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I feel the same. I think that's why I'm always trying to be with somebody and I'm always trying to be doing something because I don't really want to sit and think because I just want to do. Then what? You know? And it's like good things can come from that, but then also like other things. And I'm not really ready to deal with what those other things are, so I'm the alternative is just to keep doing and to keep working.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh. So I've just gotten to a point now where it's so much easier said than done, but the journey I'm on is like I have to do it. You gotta sit with yourself, and that's when that's when true self-love and self- self-acceptance comes in. When you've sat with every possible thought, every version of yourself, and you know yourself that well, and you love yourself anyway, you move on anyway. Like it's not like you're I love my good qualities, my bad qualities, uh, or like those those thoughts I think when no one else is around, uh you don't even shy from it. It's like that's just who I am. Yeah, but yeah, it's like you don't even get that opportunity when you're constantly doing something, doing something. It's yeah, looking like feel like you feel the energy, just like I need my therapist to speed down at this point. But yeah, it's just crazy how you know that's where I'll leave it. It's just crazy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, hustle culture is a crazy thing, and uh it's something that I feel like it's almost natural to fall victim to, especially with the timeline that we're on right now, with social media being a thing, and at least the people that I hang around are pretty ambitious people, so it's like they've all I'm sure felt victim to it some way or another. But either way, if you do fall victim to hustle culture, one of the key takeaways is more so just like putting in that time for rest, allowing yourself to rest without feeling guilt because rest is natural. The earth literally rests during winter, like and then it blooms again in spring, you know. So we are literally science, it's science. It literally is science. Like there's a reason that we have to sleep six to eight hours a night because we need rest, like our body needs that time to recuperate. Like, that's why they say, like, if you're in the gym and you're working out, it's not gonna do nothing for you if you're not getting the sleep that you need at night. Because the sleep is where your muscles repair and they put themselves back together for you to pop out with those muscles a couple months down the line, but nothing like that happens overnight. It doesn't happen if you're not getting any rest, it doesn't happen if you're not eating the right things, and all that stuff is the nourishment that you need in order to create a better life. So yeah, hustle culture is one of those things that like you have to see where you fall in the spectrum of hustle culture. Are you gonna be at the top where you literally don't give a crap about nothing and it's just straight your goals and that's it? Or are you gonna be more so towards the middle of the funnel where it's like, yes, I have these goals, but I also am putting in and scheduling and time for rest and everything else that I want to do that brings me joy, but I'm still moving the needle towards my goals. And I I guess the bottom of the funnel is like you just don't care about hustle culture at all. Like that's y'all, but on the other hand, me, I'm gonna be over here on this couch, I'm gonna be in this bed, like and it's okay wherever you fall, like it doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_01And not get there's so much to be because I think if we didn't have all these external factors and we didn't have all of these narratives that we didn't necessarily even come up with ourselves, like you said, we we've been feeling this way since we were kids just because of the environments that we were in. Right. Um, if we didn't have all of that, we'd probably think about this topic way differently if it was just us and it could be unfiltered and we didn't have any expectations to live up to. But just do your best. Like I think that's my takeaway, too, is just do your best to strip all of that away. Really ask yourself who you are, what you want. And there's a lot of positive things to come out of being ambitious and try to lean into the healthy aspect of it versus like the toxic side of hustle culture. But yeah, you know, a lot easier said than done. It is a lot easier than it's not. It's a work in progress. Like I feel like I say every episode.
SPEAKER_03No, I mean, but life is a work in progress. Like you don't ever get to 30 and you're like, oh, my life is complete. You don't get to 25 and like I have everything I want, right? Like there's always things that are gonna be under construction. But yeah, hustle culture can be one of those things that feels intoxicating too. You know, you're just like addicted to the feeling of getting things done, of like feeling like you're moving towards something. But when you start to get to the point of burnout and you feel that coming, first of all, you have to identify the signs of burnout. Of course, you have to go through burnout maybe one or two times to really see what those signs are. But once you see that, as soon as you see those signs coming, you need to like literally stop, reassess, restructure your schedule to fit in those times for joy because that's literally what it is. Like you just are not making enough time for you, enough time for joy in your day. And once you, you know, do that and you restructure and you reassess and then you move forward, that burnout will not come as quickly than you know, it might have previously done. But you know, making time for rest is just so important, regardless of where you're at in hustle culture or in life, really, just because we need that. So yeah, it's one of those things that you know we can't say that we've made it out on the other side because I just don't even think there is another side.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Because every single person that I admire had a period of, and they've spoken they speak about it now as being older where they were just burnt out. Yeah, it's almost like is there even a way with the way that it's structured to get what you want but be balanced? Yeah, you know, so you just have to know what you're willing to do.
SPEAKER_03What you're willing to do. Stop comparing yourself, especially when it comes to host of culture, like oh, what this person is getting done, and just focus on you. Like, I just feel like the best analogy is just like to keep your head down, have your mission and your vision statement, like your overall goal of what you want, even if it's just for the year, it doesn't even have to be for your entire life, but just for the year. Like, what do I want by the end of this year? Keep your head down, work towards it, but just know, like, if you fall short, you still made progress. You're always making progress if you're working towards something. So, yeah, enough said. Best of luck to you. What if that's how we ended it? And you're like, dang, best of luck, best of luck. Let us know if you made it out because we get over here.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. Nah, but yeah, yes, I guess that's the walk. That's the walkout for me.
SPEAKER_03Me too. I enjoyed that, me too. But seriously, though, like if you are struggling with hustle culture, just lean into your periods of rest, lean into what you think you need, but stay focused on your goals, not everybody else's goals, the goals that you have, and make sure that your goals align with the truest version of you. Because a lot of the times I feel like we have goals, but they're not actually our goals. Like they're goals that maybe our parents or our friends have put on us.
SPEAKER_01They can be hard to cut through. That's the thing. You might think you know, but you need that period of rest. You need you need introspection because when you start uncovering a lot of layers, it's crazy what you'll find. Yeah, it's so crazy that you you're like, I think I believe this. Why do I believe this so deeply? And when you keep asking why, why, why, why, why? It's like, oh, it's wow. Yeah, it's in it's really enlightening, though. It's you know, it's the shadow work, it's scary, but it's also freeing. It is freeing.
SPEAKER_03It's like that exercise where they tell you you ask yourself a question, then you answer it, and then you ask why. Why? And then you keep going, and then you keep going.
SPEAKER_01It's insane.
SPEAKER_03It's it's really powerful. It's eye-opening, though. I encourage you to do that if you I mean, not if when you have the spare time, because you have to make time for stuff like that to get to know yourself better. It's just really important. But that is what we're gonna walk out with today. Cause as usual, you know, we like to rap. You like we like to ramble, we like to talk, and we could keep talking about hustle culture. Like, I have so much more to say. Like, there could probably be a part two to this episode, to be honest.
SPEAKER_01We will definitely have another episode on this. Yeah, but then themes from this episode, I feel like they come up in like all of our. They do, yeah, they literally do. It's just like intertwine that way, right?
SPEAKER_03For sure. But as usual, you know where to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. And if you're seeing our beautiful faces on YouTube, please do us a favor and hit that like button. Comment the little muscle emoji for hustle culture because we we hustle in, we get into it, yeah. And um, let us know like some of your takeaways, one of the things that you're working through with hustle culture, if there's any advice that you can give us, give other people. Um, and as usual, we also have that uh let me help you out topic request form, which we are going to start um integrating some of those submissions into our podcast. We'll have a whole separate segment for that. Uh so if you have anything that you feel like you're struggling with, you want us to talk about, all those sorts of things, be sure to check that out in the description below. And same thing with the black business. If you have one, if you know of anyone, if you visited one, just submit that form and we would love to talk about them and try them out for ourselves. And just like that, we'll see you next time. Bye.
