Was It a Setback or a Setup?

S1, E3: Welcome to Let Me Walk You Out!

In this episode of Let Me Walk You Out, Stephanie and Kyndall are talking about setbacks, failures, and the moments that make you question if you’re behind, stuck, or doing life “wrong.”

The conversation starts with a simple question: what’s the difference between a setback and a failure? From there, we get into the lessons we’ve learned through friendship changes, dating experiences, career frustration, post-grad pressure, self-doubt, and learning how to build self-belief.

We talk about why failure doesn’t have to define you, why quitting isn’t the same as pivoting, and how setbacks can reveal what you need to learn, release, or rebuild.

This episode is for anyone who has ever felt like life was moving slower than expected, compared themselves to everyone else’s timeline, or had to remind themselves that one hard season does not mean the story is over.

New episodes drop every Wednesday.

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Black-Owned Business of the Week: Vera Skin

Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Founder/Owner: Asia Buck

Vibe Check:
Vera Skin is a beauty and aesthetics business offering services like facials, waxing, brow tinting, brow lamination, and more. Vera Skin offers 30-minute facials, 60-minute facials, and even a quick lunch break facial for anyone who wants to refresh their skin during the day. First-time appointments are currently 50% off, making it a great time to book and support. If you’re in Atlanta and looking to get into facials, refresh your skin, or support a Black-owned beauty business, Vera Skin is one to check out.

Support/Follow Vera Skin:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/verasknglow/ 
Booking Link: https://veraskn.setmore.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I feel like I'm such a loyal person that if I was rocking with you, then I always want to be rocking with you. Like I don't want to not rock.

SPEAKER_03 0:05

I'm obviously your friend for a reason. I want to be a good one.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

We've been so successful, Michael Jackson. Yeah, we can get into that. Don't start into that. I'm gonna get up and hit it. Welcome back to Let Me Walk You Out, a podcast about navigating ambition, womanhood, sisterhood, growth, alignment, all the things.

SPEAKER_03 0:30

All the things.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

And we're so excited to be back. I know. Episode three. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

Episode three.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Girl, we're here.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

It's been a journey.

SPEAKER_02 0:39

And yeah, we're so excited to be back. And um, girl, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

It's been a week. It's been a week.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

It's been a week. Yeah. So let's unpack. Let me catch you up. Let me catch you up with what has been going on.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Yeah. What's been going on in your life? Okay, so we can talk about highs and lows. So, of course, we'll start with highs. So, this week I had the very fun opportunity to go to the Mandalorian and Grogu movie premiere. That was definitely a high. Yeah. Um, I think it was super cool. Our really good friend since middle school, she hooked me up with some tickets and Malik and I went. That was like my first ever movie premiere influencer screening kind of vibe. Yeah. And so like I really didn't know what to expect. Um, where was it? It was at Atlantic Station. Okay. Right there at that Regal. Okay. And it was like really cool because you know, we get in there and there's this like long line. Like, oh my gosh, I wasn't expecting like this many people to be here. And then I'm seeing people walk up to this other line and uh they just like get right in. And I was like, Malik, go go see what that's talking about. Go, yeah, who needs to be in that line for us to get in? I'm looking at the time like this line is barely moving now. Like, and so he went over there and turned out we needed to be in that line anyway. And so he was like, Come on over here. You know, I was like, they get in too quick. Why they just walk around and get in? I need to figure that out. And so we were on the list, it was on the VIP list. So shout out for real because I wish I would have known that sooner. Yeah, because then I would have been able to like get in a little bit sooner. But it's all good because you know, we didn't start on time anyway. You know, it's Atlanta, so it's always something going on. CPT. Yeah, quite like hello. But when we got in, we had matcha. They had like different like drinks for the just like the brand activation event of Mandalorian and Grogu. You know, Grogu's green, so they brought in matcha.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

I was like, why matcha?

SPEAKER_03 2:34

But then I guess because it's green, because it's like, you know, baby, baby Yoda. He's not actually baby Yoda, but yeah, it was so cool. And I actually like the matcha. Like, I'm not a matcha girl, yeah. I'm really not a matcha girl, but I actually enjoyed it. And you tried. I did. I've tried so many different matches, like Callie, my sister. We didn't introduce these characters last time, but like we just said people.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

You get used to like our casting characters, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

Seriously. Um, but she kept like trying to get me to try different matches and was like, girl, okay, what about this one? She gave me like a strawberry one one time, and I took a sit and I was like, mmm, still not my vibe. She gave me a banana one one time. That was actually pretty good. Yeah, I remember the banana. That was different. But this time I was like, okay, I'm kind of getting it. So shout out to them. But it was a good movie, and I enjoyed it. I was smiling, I was laughing the whole time. And if you haven't seen it yet, you definitely should. It'll probably see it. Come to streaming services soon. It's a Disney movie. So streaming because I feel like I'm not a Star Wars girl. Yeah. And you don't need to have any sort of like prerequisite of like the Star Wars universe, and like they're like 50, 11.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

No, it ain't like nine, maybe 10.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

It's a lot of like never ending it's like a trying to do it.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

Yeah, but I mean, I get it.

SPEAKER_03 3:46

Yeah, but you don't need to have like any sort of like knowledge in order to like go and see it and enjoy it. So you definitely should. So that was my high, and I was very happy about that. And I'm very appreciative. So if she's watching, shout out to you. I really appreciate you.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

You made a fire recap video. I did. So y'all need to go check that out on her page because it was so cute. Yeah, the outfit was T. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 4:05

I'll start there channeling like Padme from what is the planet called? It's some planet in the Star Wars, but it's in the universe. Yeah, okay. Well, I was like trying to do a little bit of like quote unquote cosplay. I don't know if it's like, yeah, I didn't get the reference, but that's because I'm not a Star Wars girl, but that's even better. I tried and it was really cute because it was like just all white because all she did was wear all white and then a cape. And I was like, okay, I can figure out some all white and stuff to go over.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

I love a good all-white pop of color moment. Yeah. And I think that plaid that you added on, I was like, okay, I like this. So thank you. Cute video, go check it out.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

Yeah. It's on all of my social channels. So you can check it out at Stefanina. Period. And do you want me to do low or do you want to go with high?

SPEAKER_02 4:48

I guess, yeah. Should we just both do high and then we do? Then we go low, yeah. Okay. When they go high, we go low. Yeah. Um, okay, my high was that I took my mom out to brunch. And I feel like my mom, like, you know, you grow up and they're like, I'm not your little friend. But now that is being my little friend. Yes. And we have a good time. But I feel like moving since moving home, I haven't like just hung out with her as much as I should. So I was just like, girl, let's go to brunch. And we went to the garden room um in it's like kind of inside of Saint Regis. Uh-huh. Um, but I had never been inside of there. And gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous um interior of the St. Regis. Yeah. And then you get into the restaurant, and the garden room is stunning. I love it. Like, it literally feels like you're in a greenhouse. Um, the garden room. Yeah. Literally, it's just the garden room. And it was like not too big, but it wasn't too small either. Like it gave intimate, but still room to move around. And everybody was dressed to the nines. Like, I think my outfit was cute, but I felt underdressed almost.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Really?

SPEAKER_02 6:01

Um, I was like, yeah, I could have come harder. Like it was people were putting together some looks, but I think a lot of people were staying there. Yeah. They just rolled downstairs. St. Regis, too. Yeah. So you already know the type of people that were there, but it was really, really, really nice. Um, but yeah, we just caught up. I mean, I was in there full transparency wearing some shades because the night before we had a time. We had a time. Steph had a game night. So you already know I was out late partying. So I'm in there like shades on, talking to my mama, kind of leaning. Mind you, I don't even know how she made it to brunch.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

I mean, I couldn't have made it. I know that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

If look, I woke up chug water, BC powder. Like every like it took a minute for me to get out of bed, but we made it. Yeah. Um, and yeah, I got hummus.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

I love hummus. The hummus was phenomenal. Um, my mom got shrimp cocktail, and then I got ex Benedict, which is my go-to everywhere I go to brunch, but it came with caviar on top. Oh, yeah.

unknown 7:02

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

I was like, okay, St. Regis. Hello? Don't play. Don't play.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

So I know, right? Garden room. So the garden room was tea. So yeah, I just loved catching up with my mom.

SPEAKER_03 7:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:13

Um, and that was probably my high.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

Yeah, I love that. Need to take my mom out to brunch more for sure. For sure. So I guess we're dipping into lows, dipping our toes in the lows. And I would say that my low is that I recently, I guess it's it hasn't been recent no more. Like at this point, it's been like a month and a half since I've been back from my trip, um, from my birthday trip, but a lot happened, I feel like, when I was on that trip and that transition into me coming back to like a different sort of reality. Like before we left, our podcast was still like very much to an idea, and we had just did our photo shoot, and uh um we really hadn't recorded any episodes yet before I left. But when I came back or when I was on my trip, we got the pictures from our photo shoot back. A lot of things just kind of started moving forward with that. Then uh before I left for my birthday trip, I was like part-time with my job, which would have me only like working about 30 hours a week. I mean, I still had other things going on, but then before I left too, another one of my clients asked me to do a little bit more, start managing her schedule and things like that. So that was just like an extra additional role, I guess, that I took on because it was it became more than just managing her schedule very, very quickly. And so then I was doing that, and so when I was leaving for my trip, I was like, okay, I'm getting a nice break. I'm getting, you know, to escape for a week and you know, being able to celebrate turning 25 because I feel like that's such a big milestone birthday. But a lot of things happened, like I said, I we got our pictures back, things started moving forward with that. My job ended up bringing me on full time on the trip. They texted me on my actual birthday. On your birthday, yeah, yeah. And it was like, wow, I don't think he knew when he was texting me that it was my birthday, but I was like, this is an amazing gift. But I was like trying to like really process what that was gonna look like moving forward with all of my other responsibilities when I got back, but I was trying not to like think about it too much while I was there because I still just wanted to enjoy myself. I wanted to enjoy my trip. Like I'm overseas in Greece, like for the first time ever, and I don't really want to think about work right now. Like, this is great and this is exciting, but I don't want to think about what is gonna have to change and shift. So, yeah, ever since I got back, it's just been a lot, a lot of adjustment because it's like I've been trying to okay, now I'm managing a full-time work schedule on top of everything that I'm doing with my business, also full-time, like and my clients need more of me in this way. So, how am I gonna be able to do all of this without spreading myself too thin? And then also still being able to work in my routine, like working going to the gym, working going, you know, on walks, like just your wellness things. So I'm not I'm taking care of myself and not losing myself in the process of just like chasing a dollar or like busyness when that's like not really the goal. Like the goal is to make money to create more freedom for yourself, not just make money to keep busy. So that's been hard, that's been my low, and I was really kind of processing that realization this week because that's when it really hit me. Because I was just talking with my quote-unquote therapist. I wouldn't say that she's a therapist, she's more of like a natural healer and you know, healing through conversation and openness and things like that. And she was like, You've been processing a lot, like you don't understand, but a lot happened on your your birthday trip that you didn't really have the chance to really think about until you got back. And now that you've been back, you've just been trying to get it done, but you haven't really had the chance to really process everything that has changed. And that's when it hit me kind of like a ton of bricks that I was like, Oh, wow, you're so right. And so I think it's just getting back to that routine, or not even back to that routine, because it's different. I have to establish and create a new routine, and so I think that's what the biggest challenge has been is like finding what that new routine looks like and finding what I can do today, tomorrow, every day that's gonna keep my head on straight while still being able to help everyone else at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Yeah. So I feel like you said something that was so important. Like go ahead, girl. No, the thing about me is when it when an inside joke pops in my head, I can't talk. I'm just thinking about us in the editing process talking about cutting. Cut it.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

Y'all, I'm gonna keep it quick.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

But it was it was just basically like that that's a low for you. You said two really amazing things, but that it can still be a low if you're trying to process like moving through it. And if you don't take the time to like sit in it and give yourself grace and allow yourself to like, okay, the routine isn't the same. Yeah, and you probably felt low about that, but it's because so much opportunity opened up that now we have to like, you know. So it was just interesting how you frame that because I feel like, yeah, it's it's easy to just speed run through life achieving things, right? And then you somehow still feel empty, and it's because you didn't take a moment to be like, what just happened? What just happened? Like, so I'm glad that um your quote unquote therapist like helped you to process that because that's important.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

She was she was very pivotal in that realization. So I appreciate her for bringing that to my attention because I would have just kept going through it and not taking a step back to really like think about okay, yeah, so much actually has changed, but there is no going back to routine, it's creating a new routine. So, what does that look like for you?

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Yeah, girl. My low is I feel like you just took us on a journey, and my low is I went to the dentist. That's a journey in itself. Yeah, it was a journey. Like people hate the dentist. Yeah, I personally hate the dentist, and it's just I mean, it's just the worst kind of doctor to me. I maybe the gynecologist is above that. No, so I think the gynecologist is even more intimate, especially if you're doing like a pap smear. Yeah, I guess that is really intimate. Yeah, but no, like the dentist is just mad awkward to me. Like, you just my mouth is pride open and you in there scraping and shit. Like there's just nothing about it screams, yay, I'm going to the dentist. So, yeah, I guess you're right. I I don't know, like it does hurt, yeah. Like your mouth is a little numb after. But the last time I went to the dentist last year, I ended up having to go back multiple times because they like found. I don't even know like how to describe it, but you know when they are going through your teeth and they're like saying numbers like two, three, one, whatever. Yeah, that's like gums. They're like, you're gonna go with the gums, and they were like, Oh, like we need to actually can't we can't do the regular treatment today. You need to come back and get something treated for your gums before this develops into gum disease. Yeah, I think like when like food or whatever gets trapped in there, they have to do like regular cleaning. And that's my fault because I haven't been to dentist in like over a year, like I wasn't hitting them six month marks or whatever. So I think I was like, oh man, I thought I was gonna be able to just slide on in here and slide out, and they were like, you need a deeper clean. Psych. So I had to get that. I think ever since then I've just been like, ugh, I don't want to go back. Like this time I thought it was gonna be a whole nother whoop-do-doo, but it ended up being just a quick little hour of cleaning. But that's good, you know, that was my low because I didn't really have a crazy week, but yeah, who wants to go to the dentist? Who wants to go to the dentist?

SPEAKER_03 14:50

Yeah, girl, I feel you. Last time I had to get x-rays, and it was the guy's like first time, I'm pretty sure, like doing x-rays on someone. So I'm trying to be patient, and I really thought I was gonna be able to get in and out because they don't usually take long, but he was just having such a hard time. Damn, and it's just like that's me, I'm just playing in my mouth right now. So I have a meeting at 11:30. I agree with actually. You know, like where's can we get the season process? I was watching him like went to another room and I was like, no, baby, come back. We need you. I know y'all trying to let him do what he gotta do so he can learn, but on somebody else, not me. Yeah, please, please. I hate being the guinea pig. I hate the guinea guy. And I was trying to be so nice. He kept apologizing. I was like, okay, okay. Like my mouth is open, like I can't even smell nothing.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

What am I gonna say?

SPEAKER_03 15:42

No, like it's too much. The dentist is cool sometimes, though. I do like my little goodie bag when I look at it.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

I love the goodie bag, been using that. Yeah, new toothbrush, new floss, like yes, but nah, the actual experience was a low.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

Yeah, we couldn't, but we could skip that. Just get the goodie bag, girl.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

Well, yeah, that was our week, highs and lows. I hope you you having more highs than lows. Yeah, for regular week, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 16:11

Seriously, but I hope you kiki in with us too because I know we over here cracking up. Oh okay, so we can go ahead and get into the next quick little segment. We're gonna highlight another black business. This is every week. So if you have a black business that you would like to highlight, we actually have a spotlight request form in the description below. Please fill that out, let us know. We also would love to like go to businesses that we could actually try or order from so that we can give like our honest opinion to. So definitely drop that in the suggestion spotlight request form for black businesses. And uh, we are really in Atlanta, so if it's anything outside of Atlanta, you know, if we can't experience it, we will do our very best. But you know, if you can have like a good description of what that business is about so that we can inform more people, that would be amazing. But this week's black business of the week is called Vera Skin. Now, Vera Skin is a beauty and aesthetics business, it is owned and operated by my sister. She is amazing. I have actually gotten a facial from her before, and it was just so divine and heavenly. Like, I didn't want to do anything else with my day but just lay because I was feeling so relaxed. And so she just opened and uh she does things like facials, wax, brow tint, lamination services of that nature, and all of your first appointments. So if you book with her, your first appointment is 50% off, which is an amazing deal. You better get on you know, she'll be seeing me, right? Pronto, okay, 30-minute facials, 60-minute facials. She even has like a lunchtime facial, like a lunch break special facial, which is only like 15 minutes. But I thought that was so cute. Like on my lunch break, I'm just gonna go get this facial real quick. That's cute. Come back to the office looking glammed. They're like, bro, what'd you just do? So, yeah, it's a super cool uh way to support. She's based here in Atlanta, so we will have all her information linked in the description below. Please go check that out and support. I love it, I love her so much, and I am almost positive, double negative, because two negatives equals a positive. If you didn't get that, you know, you will love her too. So go ahead and check her out. Linked in the description below, and yeah, shout out to Asia. Love you, girl. Shout out to Asia, girl.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

You will be seeing me for sure because I feel like I need to get more into facials. Yeah, me too. Yeah, I've only had it once really ever in my life.

SPEAKER_03 18:44

Same, and it was from her. Wow. Well, actually, no, no, no, no. I can't, I can't lie. I did have a facial before then, but they did that thing where they like they they your pores on your nose, like they get all the blackheads. Oh, um, and boy, did that hurt. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Was it like were they like um pressing into with that tool?

SPEAKER_03 19:02

I don't know if there was a tool or they were using their thumbs. It was um on vacation one time. My mom was like, Oh, let's have a spot aid now. You know, I'm not gonna say no if it's on her. Hello, yeah, I'm gonna go. Girl spot A. Let's do it, let's do it. So, yeah, that was the only facial I had. I do remember feeling very like relaxed, and like my skin felt very good after. But I think because we were on vacation two, I didn't really have the proper sunscreen to cover up that facial, so like my facial started peeling, and it was just like a whole ordeal, but it was really nice. Don't get me wrong, it was really nice. But the one that I had with Asia was like really serene, it didn't hurt at all. Like, she does like microdermoblation and stuff like that, too. So you can book that service if you want to, but I didn't, I just wanted your facial, get me right, exfoliate, do what you gotta do, put some sunscreen on. I can go about my day and I can put on my sunglasses feeling nice and refreshed. So it really just depends on what you want. Yeah, period.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

Well, Asia, you'll be honest with me. Yeah, all right, girl, let's move on into our topic this week. Um, I think last week we walked through what's got us here, like five things that got us here. Yeah, but we were like, girl, let's talk about the setbacks we've had, actually, because I think that is also very important and very telling also how we got here. Yeah, so there's always got to be balance. You can go one way, you can also go the other.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Um, and I think there's so much conversation for our age group, at least, like early 20s right now, around like having anxiety around what timeline you should be on. You don't know if you're behind, if you're ahead, if you you're feeling lost, stuck. Like we talked a little bit in the last episode about post-grad depression and what that looked like for us, but it's very real, and that's a very vulnerable time in your life where you're like, what's really going on? Who am I? What do I want out of this whole thing? And then where do I fit in the grand scheme of like society? So that of course brings up a lot of anxiety about what you're currently achieving, and sometimes in life there's more setbacks than there are like achievements or there's progression. And we just want to talk about that because I know personally I am one that has felt the pressure of not knowing if I'm in the right place at the right time, doing the right thing in every aspect of my life, like career, relationships, friendships, hobbies, like everything, travel, literally everything, like all the categories. Everything. Like I just sometimes feel very like unsure. And it's hard to talk about sometimes because it's like, how do I even when does this Come up even, or do I just call you and be like, girl, like I feel lost? It's like, how do we even open up the door to talk about that? And sometimes I'll try to like ease it. Do I be like stuff, girl? Just limited.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

We put it on the table, okay?

SPEAKER_02 22:15

Because yeah, so I think that I kind of wanted to open it up with a question. Um, and I'll ask you, what do you think? I'm nervous. I'm like, I didn't know the interview today. Turn into the relevant interviewers, okay? I'm ready. Um, what do you think is the difference between before we really get into like, you know, talking about our setbacks, but what do you think is the difference between a setback and a failure?

SPEAKER_03 22:43

Ooh, honestly, I don't believe in failure. I don't think that failure actually exists. I think failure is a figment of your imagination because setbacks and failure are synonymous to me. I think a setback, a failure is inherently just a setback. And setbacks aren't looked at as harshly as failure is. Failure only teaches you what isn't the way to go, you know. Like if you failed at your math test, you didn't really, I mean, I guess like on paper, yeah, you might have failed if it's like a 46, but it only really taught you what you didn't know yet. And if you go back and study what you didn't know and retake the test, you'll pass. So honestly, I'm that person who doesn't think that failure is like a thing just because I used to be so scared of it, but then I got to the point where it was just like, well, let me just fail and see what happens. Let me just fail, and that'll teach me what I don't need to do and teach me what I do need to do quicker. So, what about you?

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Girl, I have the exact same belief. Like, I don't really believe in failure anymore. I think the only true failure is when you quit. Yeah, when you give up. When you quit, when you give up, when you just decide I can't do this no more.

SPEAKER_03 24:02

Yeah, because but only if it's like a tasteful or not a tasteful, I can't do this anymore. Because like I feel like people genuinely get to a point where it's like this really isn't for me, so I need to pivot.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

And that's not what I'm talking about. And that's not a failure. But the failure to me is if you got up and you tried to like, let's say, start a business is so lofty, but like, or I don't even know if that's the right word, but it's it's such a big goal, yeah. Yeah, but literally anything, like you tried to make some pancakes and you failed at that one time, instead of like figuring out what I didn't do right with the pancakes. I'm like, oh, okay, I'm just never making pancakes again. That's to me is what the failure is. Because I think the failures teach you so much. Yes, but I'm speaking from you know, I said I was 24, I think, in like the first episode. I'm speaking from being 24. Yeah, I did not get that concept like way back when. And at all. I used to take them feel I still kind of take them a little personal, but I used to take it way more personally, but I thought it would be good to define that for ourselves. So then as we go forward and talk about some of our setbacks, we kind of know the difference between what made this a setback and what what made what would have made this more of like a failure if we didn't learn anything from it. Yeah, you know what I mean? But I don't know, I don't even know where to start because I feel like this is such a like a broad yeah, I feel like we kind of just have to pick somewhere, like throw the darts somewhere and just let's like throw the darts somewhere in the let's start with high school going into college.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

Okay, because I I really feel like that is when a lot of people start to kind of branch into different timelines, and I think that's the beginning. We kind of talked a little bit about like outgrowing people. I feel like that's the beginning of it. That's when you really start to outgrow some of the friendships that you really thought were gonna be like really lifelong, at least for me, because I feel like for or or for us, because I feel like for middle school, like when we went to RCA, that was a family, like you're never not gonna see those folks again. Or I don't think I said that right.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

But you you see them all the time. Did I? You're never not gonna, yeah, you're never not gonna see them, like because you will see them. Yeah, you we see them all the time.

SPEAKER_03 26:08

Yeah, literally texted us the other day, like, let's go out, you know, and it's like our little family, you know. So I know that it's gonna not that I would want to outgrow them, but they're those aren't people that you just outgrow because it they literally become your family because of how close of a community that we are, and we are all like I feel like all of us at RC are very like ambitious people, and we're all striving to do really, really great things, especially like our cohort. So, yeah, that's like not the people that you outgrow. But like in high school, for me, at least like when you go to a smaller school and it's like people who don't really look like you, and you're really trying to make those friendships and like kind of make them last and um really get to know who people are, and you think that you know who somebody is, and then you all get sent to different environments, and then you start to grow a little bit more, and then you realize like is the different environment like college, yeah. Mm-hmm. And then for me, like I lived in Raleigh, and uh a lot of my friends weren't from Raleigh as well, like we were all spread out, like some of us were in different parts of North Carolina, some people were in Virginia, some people were in Georgia.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

Wait, talk about that a little bit more because I feel like I know you mentioned it, but talk about your high school experience just a little bit more.

SPEAKER_03 27:17

Yeah, so I went to a boarding school for high school, which was an all-girls boarding school nine through 12, and it was in Raleigh, North Carolina, it's called St. Mary's School. I have nothing but love for them, especially looking back as an adult, and you know, maybe at 18 I would have had something different to say. But now as an adult, like I can really appreciate that experience and even appreciate my parents more so for letting me have that experience because it's really hard to just like let your 13-year-old just go to a different state and live there.

SPEAKER_02 27:49

Like for context, I beg to go to this. I want her to come to S. We were supposed to be at the same high school, and my mom was like, I need you in Atlanta. Yeah, and I get it. It's like it's you know, it's hard to send your kid away that young. But I also think you learned a lot from it too.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

I did, I learned so much in like navigating not even adulthood. I think one of the main things I learned there, or not even learned, but built upon was independence. Yeah, I think that you know, RCA already made us pretty independent people and self-sufficient because we had to be. But going to a boarding school like that at 13 years old, like I celebrated my 14th birthday in Raleigh, 15, 16, 17, 18, like all those birthdays were in a different state, um, away from home. So it's like I had to learn how to be independent, self-sufficient, quick, like like just like that. Like my parents dropped me off. I ain't gonna lie, I might be I might have cried for like two, three minutes. And then my first, my first friend, Tori, shout out to you. She came and she was like, Do you wanna go sit on Smeed's balcony? And I was like, sure. And let's do it. Let's do it. And we the rest was literally the rest is history. So it was definitely a very, very interesting experience, and like girls come from everywhere. Like, like I said, we had people who were international students. My first roommate was from China, she was so sweet. I loved her so much. And even going into like my sophomore to senior year, I switched, you know, Lola. Yeah. So she was my roommate like the rest of the time. We were like, all right, girl, yeah, this is it, right? Find them, you find them. Yeah, that's so true. But I think that the overall experience with us just being so spread out and having to really branch out, especially after we had graduated. It was, I think that was much more of a sentimental graduation to me than college was because it was like really the end of us all being together like that. Everybody was so spread out, I would have to like you have to make travel arrangements and to do that so young. Like, nobody's really doing that, you know. So it was just it was hard being independent at times, having to do so much for myself to a point where it's like I'm even having to like almost parent myself in a way because I I don't really have my parents there. You know, I'd call them for advice every now and then, but I'm so self-sufficient that like that's something that I struggled with. Even calling them, telling them that I needed help with something was like, I'm feeling like I'm putting stuff on their plate because I'm gone, like that I'm not somebody you have to worry about. Clearly, I'm states away, but of course, you know, they're probably still worried about me. But the last thing I want to do is be like, I have all these issues and they're like concerned because we didn't we're not together, you know. Like, I can't just go and talk to you about what's going on. Like this, I can get to you this weekend, I can get off work, you know. It's like a whole ordeal, so yeah, it's something that was challenging. It's only for the it's not for the week, that's for sure, but you have to be a certain type of person, and I think we know like a lot of different people who have gone to boarding school, but it's not your typical experience for sure. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

Yeah, I just wanted to ask about that because um I know a lot of people like aren't familiar with boarding schools, and there's still that conception that like you just send kids away that you don't yeah, that's not the case. I'm a very good child. It was a whole different thing. Like, I think boarding schools are becoming more um common. I can relate. I went to high school here in Atlanta, I went to Woodward, so um, that's in College Park, and I don't even know if I outgrew. I think I had such a like tight unit in high school that every single person that I was rocking with, then I'm rocking with now, even if it's a once-a-year check-in, like I'm a check-in. Yeah, but I can definitely definitely relate to outgrowing people as you go through college and you go through young adulthood. There's also part of falling out or outgrowing that's more healthy where it's like you didn't fall out, it's more that you just grow in different directions, and I think that can be harder because when I was in college and in grad school, I definitely had people where I was like, Bite, like that little girl in that video, again, bite, bye. But and I feel like that's easier, it's easier to end on bad terms with people, like yeah, that can always be you and my story are the villain, like whatever. But it's harder when you outgrow people that you really thought you were gonna be like this with, yeah, and I think that can be a setback for sure. Like those are like personal, interpersonal relationships with people, and it's like, how do you navigate that? Right, because it's hard. I feel like I'm such a loyal person that if I was rocking with you, then I always want to be rocking with you. Like, I don't want to not rock.

SPEAKER_03 32:39

Obviously, your friend for a reason.

SPEAKER_02 32:41

I want to be like, you're not being we've been so obsessed with Michael Jackson. Yeah, we can get into that.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Don't start it because I'm gonna get I'm gonna get up and hit a head on them. Like, let's be ready. They ain't ready.

SPEAKER_03 32:55

Let's let's keep it pushing because we can really get into that. We gotta keep it pee right now.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

Yeah, is that what you were trying to say? Like, I feel like I don't know if I'm taking this in a different direction.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

No, I think it's a perfect direction because you do outgrow people in a very healthy way, but it hurts. Like, it's like when we talk about how friendship breakups are harder than like actual like relationship breakups, because sometimes you don't always end on bad terms. You literally just end because you realize you guys are two different people and you don't want the same things and you don't value the same things in a friendship, clearly. Like, my one of my main things is communication. I really can't be friends with someone who takes forever to text back. Like that really grinds my gears. It's different when it's family because like that's family. I'm gonna just call you girl. But when it's friends, I guess I could just call you, but like, I just if you don't have proper communication skills, if you can't communicate with me a little something, a good little, hey girl, how you doing? If I text you that on a Sunday and you don't text back until the next Sunday following Monday, girl, because sorry, it's been a a lot going on. It's like, well, I got stuff going on too. I'm just trying to check in on you. But if you don't want that, that's fine. And that's not to like you know, say anything bad or about anybody. That's just my preferred method of like friendship. Like, that's one of my values is communication. So yeah, it's it's hard, but it's just one of those things that happens over time. And I think it I'd rather it be healthy though, because to end with somebody on bad terms, too, like you kind of have to come to peace with that yourself because you can't keep that energy, you know, like that energy that carries over from like, oh, I don't like them, like I just don't want to be friends with them, they're a horrible person. Like, if you keep carrying around that energy, that's only gonna hurt you in the long run. So I'd rather it be like a we just didn't work out, like we're just not friends, like, and then there's been friends who I've like had conversations with about why I'm not friends with them anymore. And it's just like it's not like really, yeah, like they've texted me and been like, I don't know why we're not where we're at, you know, where we used to be. And it's just like honestly, I don't think that you're a bad person. I don't think that, you know, you this is what you said to them. Yeah, it was more I said to them, like, we had great times, like we were really good friends when we needed to be friends, and it's not to say that you know, you're a bad person or anything. I just think that we don't need to be as close as we once were, and I am okay with that, and I need you to be okay with that because then it'd be pushing my boundaries if we were to, you know, try and be besties again.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

So that's so interesting, and I think that we can make this a whole different topic because I don't even want us to like go too far on a tangent about that, but I want to talk to you more about that because I don't know. I sometimes just hope people can read my mind, like yeah, I'm not ready. I'm not reaching out, then you don't have to reach out. Like if I missed your birthday, you missed mine. Like, we don't have to, I don't it gets awkward when people keep trying. Um, and I don't even know if I've been on that side because I feel like I can pick up cues pretty easily. Like, I can pick up what you're putting down if you don't want to be friends no more, if you think we should talk less, cool. But I think some people just don't know like how to do that and try to force a vibe. But there is a very respectful way to say, like, girl, I think we, but I've never had to say that. I don't even know what I would say.

SPEAKER_03 36:13

Like, I I guess it's awkward we this was before Chat GPT, by the way. Like you can't just be like screenshot, like type of respect.

SPEAKER_02 36:24

Someone would say keep it, keep it concise, keep it direct, right?

SPEAKER_03 36:27

Become friendly, you know, be sensitive, like you couldn't do it. Straight off of the dome.

SPEAKER_02 36:31

Like, yeah, that's wild. Yeah, I it's hard, probably emotional maturity is required. I don't know. I think that that's like a good starting point because friendships are such a major part of like you becoming who you are, yeah. You become who you are surrounded by, yeah. You do, so that's huge. And before we go into like other types of setbacks, because I mentioned like career, personal, like I think we can really get into that. But on the relationship part, has there ever been like a situation where you feel like you were set back in your dating life? Because I feel like for me, I think so. Like, I think that there's also a part where um dating for me felt like a setback.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

Yeah, I think in school you should speak to that more, yeah. Because I don't have too many instances where I feel like I've been set back. I think that shoot we've been set up. Hello, for real, but yeah, no, I don't think that's I would have anything like really meaningful to contribute to that conversation. Okay, I'll throw it to you.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

When I was in college, I feel like dating, um, dating is supposed to be fun. I think so. Dating is supposed to be fun, especially when you're that young. Like, yeah, if it's not working, it's not working, you move on. Yeah, but dating while on Howard University's campus.

SPEAKER_03 37:54

Oof. Now that's a whole category in itself. Like, there's dating, there's dating while black, there's dating and you know, while adults, and then there's dating on Howard University's campus where the ratio is always.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

Lord have mercy, the ratio was wild. Anybody who went to Howard, I know you like you're probably skipping through this part right now because you didn't even want to hear PTSD. Like, I'm not trying to hear that. PTSD. Very real. And the only reason why I'm bringing this up is because I think it segues nicely into other types of setbacks. Yeah. But just confidence. Yeah. Like knowing you're that girl, but you're also going through experiences with guys who are a little bit like less serious. Um, you might be trying to look for something in real meaningful connection. You keep running into guys that like, I don't know, just are more on games and stuff. Yeah. I think having those experiences in school, and it kind of like trailed even into grad school a little bit, it was like, all right, let's take a step back. What's going on? Yeah. Like, I'm not gonna sit here and like air out all my business. But you're picking up what I'm putting down, like the types of guys that you will just run into, and how to not let that affect your personal self-esteem. Yeah, and I think again, same thing with friendships, same thing with relationships. You are who you are with, like you can't be with somebody and spend a lot of time with them and not want to be kind of like them in a way because their habits rub off on you. Um, how the how they think influences how you think to a certain extent. So I would say if we have time in another episode, we could get more into that. But I wanted to touch on the two different types of relationships because those can be setbacks, and now I feel like I'm in a healthier relationship that has set me forward. Yeah, but I didn't realize how much continuing to try to make things work with people that it wasn't working out with was setting me back.

SPEAKER_03 39:54

Yeah, it's like it's like self-abandonment in a way, almost, you know, almost self-sabotage, self-abandonment, and just needing to almost get to know yourself better before you can attract anyone better. Yeah. So period. I hear you, girl. And I think that's a good point to transition to the next topic about just self-belief in general and self-doubt. And that I think that goes across all categories in friendships, relationships, careers-like you name it. Like, I think self-belief can really help you to transcend a lot of things that you're trying to overcome. But yeah, I think that dating is one of the really big ones when it comes to self-belief and self-confidence. Really, it's self-confidence, more than self-belief. I mean, self-belief is important, but these men are trifling. Like, I don't know like a better word to describe it. Like, they will come into your life and you can be on cloud nine, and they'll have you feeling like you just jumped off and you're on cloud negative 10, you know? So, and that's only though if you allow them to. And I think that's where the self-bel concept and the self-confidence comes into play because you need to know when it's like no, like I'm not taking any more of this. Like, I know what I want, I know who I am, and I'm not gonna let you make me feel any less than that. But that's you don't learn that at freaking 18.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

Like, you don't, you know, and I think the catalyst for why I started therapy the first time was a culmination of a lot. But one piece of it was a situation where I was dating a guy for a minute and then it didn't work out, and I truly felt really low. Yeah, and I was comparing myself to like other people and um trying to figure out why me, like why this happened to me, and I was internalizing a lot. And I think that was a catalyst to why I sought out therapy to get a better sense of self, to detach a situation, like a dating experience. Um, and at that time, I think I was having issues with like friends too. Yeah, I needed to detach from making melt value like the same thing as what was going on in those relationships. Yeah, because that involves somebody else, and that's you can't control other people's actions. True. All you can do is look at you and take accountability for like where I went wrong and do better, just attract better. And so, yeah, I think everything you said, um, absolutely, and that concept of like self-belief, I think when you don't have that, huge setback. Yeah. So I feel like I wanna I wanna hear more about that from you because I feel like you can really speak to like developing that, yeah, and allowing that to not be a setback in your life, but more of like something that once you heal that relationship with yourself, you can go further.

SPEAKER_03 42:46

I think that this has happened more recently, I would say, than not. I can't say that I was very confident in myself at 16. I cannot say that I was very confident in myself even at 20, 21, to be honest. Like, I feel like I'm just now 25 years old, getting to the point where I can actually, like, if I put my mind to something, I truly believe that I can do it. And I think that's one of the things that's you know, I was talking to you about this, like, you know, Pookie and them can say all how much they believe in you, and you know how much they love you and they adore you, and how much they think that you're gonna go all these places. But if you don't believe Pookie and them, it's not gonna do you no good. Yeah, so I think one of the biggest examples for me of self-belief um has to be when one when I started uh my YouTube channel again, I guess it was 2025 when I started posting consistently, consistently, consistently, then I got to a point of burnout, but we that'll be a different episode. We're not even gonna touch on that, but so no, I was posting like every week and I had been doubting myself for so long. And I think I talked about even in the last episode, like my word for 2025 was consistency. Yeah. And so that was the year that I was really trying to prove to myself, okay, you can do it. And building the consistency helped to believe the self or helped to um help me with self-belief, if that makes sense. I'm trying to think of a better way to say that, but that's just how we're gonna put it for now, okay? Um, but building that consistency really helped me to grow my self-belief because it was more so, okay, you've proved multiple times that you can do this. Now, okay, what else can you do? Like, where else can you take this? And when I started to kind of see like the proof is in the pudding, is when I really started to see, okay, let me broaden my horizons, let me broaden my um my mindset. And I think one of the biggest examples was that job that I was at for really no time. So I was really at this job for like a year and a half, maybe more. I started with the overall company back in like October of 2024, really November 2024, and I guess it was like a full two years because I ended up leaving. Oh, sorry, October, November 2023. Then I ended up leaving in about October, November of 2025. So it was about a full two years of me working there, and you know, I would complain, I don't complain, you know. Yeah, girl, is she do be complaining sometimes? And it got to a point where I was just sick of complaining. Like, yeah, I was tired of talking about it. I was like, I know people are tired of me talking about it. They don't want to hear about this dang job no more. They don't want to hear about it, girl. You gotta do something about it. And it was like, yeah, everybody keeps telling me to okay, apply for this, apply for more jobs. And it was like, I kept trying to rationalize, okay, well, it's not that bad. Like, maybe I do deserve like, you know, this much a month. I like I don't really do much. Like, I'm trying to justify lower pay for myself, mind you. And it got to a point where it's like, girl, what are you doing all of this for? Like, what are you compromising for when you your vision board is women in suits, women who have started their own businesses, cash flow, bank, bank, bank, bankroll. You know what I'm saying? This is not gonna be the avenue to get you there. What are you compromising for? And I really had to have that come to Jesus moment with myself. And I think, you know, doing other things like establishing consistency with working out, with posting, with um just showing up for myself on a daily basis, journaling, even stuff, little things like that, really was like, okay, girl, well, you can do it. Everybody's telling you that you can do it. Now you need to see if you can actually do it and actually believe that you can get somewhere and something else. And so I think once I started to actually believe in myself and actually believe that I deserve better, I think the main overarching thing is like I didn't believe that I needed or wanted one certain thing. Like, I believe that I deserve a new car. Like, it wasn't anything stupid like that, not to say that's stupid, because I I do believe that I deserve a new car. It's not stupid at all, you know. But it wasn't so granular that it was just like the overarching is just that I believe that I deserve better. Yeah. And how are we gonna get that? How are you gonna get better? And how are you going to position yourself for better? And um, all right, let's do it. Because stop complaining. I I don't want to hear, I didn't want to hear myself complain anymore. And I think my breaking point was when I was in um Colorado with my sister, and I was just like, I love talking to her because she's like she can get where I'm coming from on a much deeper level, being so much older than me, because my sister and I have like a 20-year age gap, so she can speak from like having gone through and having been through it before, but having and is now on the other side. And so when I am like voicing my frustrations, like I started talking about the job, she was like, girl, I'm tired of you talking about that job. Like, you're only there because at this point you don't believe you can get anywhere else. And if you keep you know moving that way, you're not really gonna get very far. And it was just like yeah, you had to sit with that. I literally like shut up after that. You had to just sit with I think I literally sat back in a chair and was like, Yeah, all right, let me shut my little, you know, self up.

SPEAKER_02 48:06

Like, but it's people who are real with you like that that you need. You need that, you need that because there's certain people that would have let you complain until the day you die, and they would have been like, Oh, yeah, girl, that sounds hard. I hate my job too. And it's the people who believe in you, you know, that always are gonna tell you and keep it how it is.

SPEAKER_03 48:20

Uh a honey. Mm-hmm. Because you can have your little friend that's like, yeah, girl, you need to quit that job, or yeah, girl, I hate to hear that. I'm sorry. Uh yeah, you we we all going through it and just like co-signing you and not the person that's like, no, girl, you you deserve better. What are we gonna do about it? What are you gonna do? Yeah, you she was always like, Are you getting that resume together? Well, you you need me to look at something. And I'm always like, dang, okay, all right, I get it. Let me get on my Zoom, let me get on my Zoom, but nah, she kept it real, and I needed that because after that trip is when I decided, like, I do deserve better. And I literally came back from that trip. I made my plan. I had two different plans. I was like, okay, I could quit tomorrow or I could save up some money and quit in a month. So I was like, okay, let's let's be smart about it. Like, yeah, you gotta know your risk tolerance because some people would have just been like, bye. But then there's another way to do it. Yeah, especially because I'd been working with it for so long. Like, quitting tomorrow was just like rude and not an option for me. I don't like to leave places with on bad terms ever. I feel you, but yeah, so self-belief is in it's huge, and it's not self-belief in a specific area, but yeah, it can't be like I believe I can get into the gym. Yeah, that's in one specific area, but it needs to be like you just need to believe in yourself that you can do whatever you put your mind to. Yeah, and once you start, you know, gaining the confidence, or should I say the data to back up that belief, then you'll have the confidence to actually pursue it.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

So, girl, amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_03 49:47

Like Trump.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

Mike, drop it. No, don't drop it for real.

SPEAKER_03 49:50

I caught it.

SPEAKER_02 49:52

But no, yeah, I 100% feel you, and I'm trying to think of like when I felt like I believed in myself more because I there was a long period of time where I felt so awkward in my own body, yes, awkward in what I thought, how I felt, like everything kind of was a question mark. Like I was ready to step, but was I? Yeah, you know, and that might just be because of who I am. Like, I know I'm a more reserved observer type of a person. So a lot of how I navigate the world is just watching. Yeah, I'm not the loudest, I'm not the center, but I'ma still do something. But now I kind of make it more intentional. There was a point where I really was just trying to like be in the back and hide. And I used to think I'm just a shy person, but when I like deconstructed that, I was like, hmm, am I shy or am I just scared? Yeah, am I scared of perception? Am I scared of judgment? Am I scared of actually trying? Because then if I know I'm trying and I fail, now I tried and my heart was in it. Versus if I never tried at all, well, I didn't get it because I didn't try. Yeah, like I really sat in that for a minute. It changed for me in college. Yeah. That's when it changed because I started to clock that mindset when I was just not doing a lot on campus. Like I was, I would see things I wanted to do and be like, that seems cool. Like, but then I wouldn't do it because that meant putting myself out there. And then that meant people are seeing me try. Yeah. That meant, um, yeah, I'm invested in this now. And so now I feel like if it doesn't go well, I'm gonna be very, very hurt, and I'm gonna do that thing again where I internalize failure because I'm like, that means I'm not good enough. And I had to just work through all of that. And I remember, like you said, there was a year for you where you were like, this is the year of consistency. Yeah, for me, it was coming out of 2022. We don't even speak about 2022. For me, 2022 was a horrible year, I was at so many lows, and it's because we, you know, COVID happened. Yeah, that was getting back to like real COVID happened like 2020, so we were at home March 2020, and then Howard didn't go back into session for 2021. Yeah, they did. Like I was on Zoom for June for sophomore year. So then I went back the whole year, my whole year was depressing. Yeah, so I we got back to campus as juniors, and the way Howard is set up, like when you are a freshman, they have four dorms, um, two girls, two boys, but everyone is guaranteed housing. When you're a sophomore, I think you're pretty much guaranteed. Junior and senior, it gets a little dicey. It's like if we got it, we got it. If we don't, you gotta sign a lease. And there's just such a shortage of housing at Howard. So most times you're gonna have a lease. Yeah. Now I got a lease. Like, I I wanna say, I don't remember how many miles off campus, but like I had to take the train every day, like a good 30, 45-minute commute on the train to get to campus. So I feel so isolated, and we just got back. So I remember just thinking, like, gosh, I want to do all these things, but I just it would just take me too long to get there, or I don't feel as connected to the student body anymore. I'm trying to make friends, but I don't know how. It was all of these things, but I started to realize like, maybe I'm not just too shy to make friends, maybe it's not just the circumstances, like it it did play a factor. But a part of it was like, I am just too scared to get on this campus and really try to do something for real. And junior year at the end of 2022, when I was feeling like this is a mess. I feel a mess, and every single day I'm feeling this way, and I feel like I don't like feeling powerless. So I was like, what can I do?

SPEAKER_03 53:49

Yes, that's the worst feeling ever.

SPEAKER_02 53:51

It's so it's like you don't want to sit in that for too long. Um, 2022, I wrote myself a letter. I was telling you about this the other day. I wrote myself a letter to be delivered to me at the end of 2023, and it was like basically everything that I just knew I was gonna accomplish. I'm like, girl, you did it. You got up, you did what you had to do, you applied for um the schools you wanted to go to, you went out, you made friends, like you had a really, really bomb friend group at the end of um at the end of the school year or whatever, like closing it out. You met some really cool people, you um went out for like the e-board of like I was on the e-board for the PRSSA, which is the Public Relations Student Society of America tongue twister, say that three times fast. And I ended up meeting some really dope people um having some of the best experiences because I just put myself out there and I started to believe that I could do more because I just took the leap to do more. Yeah, and I was like, wow, it was this simple the whole time.

SPEAKER_03 54:53

Like, it's not simple though, it's not. It's really like you think it's this just like quick little, quick little boom, boom, boom.

SPEAKER_02 55:00

But I had to go through what I went through to understand that babe, to live life, you gotta live life. Yeah, and I was my own setback in that scenario. Like, sure, there were external factors into why my confidence took hits at certain points, but at the end of the day, I was holding myself back by allowing myself to sit in that and create narratives that weren't true. Versus when I really started living life, even in the moments where I was quote unquote failing, I would I remember just being grateful. Yeah, I was like, but I'm feeling, I just numb anymore. I'm not just stuck. I'm like really feeling like I'm not on the sidelines of my own life, but I'm playing in it. Yes. And that's something that the therapist I can't even take credit for that because I just got chills, but that's something that um my therapist at the time that I got, she put me on to Brene Brown. If you don't know who that is, I think I don't even know what her official title is. I want to say she's like a researcher, something psychology, I want to say. Should I talk about eldest daughter like being the eldest daughter? That isn't what I know her for. I low-key want to look it up because I don't want to get this wrong. I don't know where my phone is. I got you. We can there we go. Vulnerability research professor, author, and podcaster who studies vulnerability, courage, empathy, and shame. She has a Netflix special. I hope it's still there because if you struggle with any of those things, and I think most humans do because it's such a human experience, please watch it. But she said that in her talk, and it's stuck out to me ever since. She was like living behind this like veil of vulnerability, shame, um, embarrassment. You become like a you're on the sidelines of your own life. You're just watching all these decisions just basically get made for you while you're doing nothing. Yeah, but when you get in there, it doesn't matter if you you're getting hit a hundred times, at least it's you doing it. At least so everybody was just like power in me standing up and finally deciding, like, okay, I'm gonna do this. Like, and then the confidence grew. Like the confidence does not just come out of nowhere when you wake up one day and you're like, I wish I was confident. The confidence comes from doing the thing, yeah, and then being confident. Exactly. I don't even know how I don't even know what made me say all of that, but belief, self-belief, self-belief, self-belief, and you said something important too. What did I say, girl? Tell me about the job, yeah, but I think that was huge for me too, because that's a career setback.

SPEAKER_03 57:40

Yes, that was a career setback. I did feel very set back, especially. Oh my gosh, I was comparison, comparison, comparison, especially. Like, that was like my first job out of college, and I felt like I was like compromising so much, knowing that I deserved so much more. Like, it's one thing to like know, but it's another thing to like know that you deserve more. It's like it was a thought in the back of my mind, like, oh yeah, I mean, I of course I deserve to be working at like a nicer company, you know, that pays well, put me on a full-time salary benefits, all that. Even though that's not like what I want long term, I was that's what I want right now, yeah, and I deserve that. And it felt like I'm watching everybody literally get what I want on LinkedIn, and it's just like, when is that gonna be me? Like the the the horrible L word, the horrible, horrible L word. But yeah, yeah, yeah. It did feel like a career setback because I was there for so long, and I think what really like did it for me was it didn't do it for me in a bad way, but like when you finally got your offer for your job post-grad, I was like, all right, Steph, lock in. Yeah, I think I told you that too when I was leaving. I was like, you really inspired me. Like when you like found something that you liked, because you were very, she's a picky person, y'all. She's very picky. I'm so picky offers, but if it's not what she wants, she's gonna say no. Okay, she is not settling for it.

SPEAKER_02 59:12

That's so crazy because I was literally just talking to my homegirl about this like two days ago. Because she's like in the middle of trying to get a job. Yeah, she graduated December? Last December. Oh, yeah. So she's like fresh out, and she's like exactly how I was at that time. Like now it's been maybe like five months or so. And this is around when I was getting anti too, because you're expecting two to three months. Yes. But then it keeps going, and she's like, I don't know, like I like, I need a strategy. What was your process? And I was telling her, like, girl, don't be afraid to say no to something, especially because we she's like me, where we moved home. So like I'm at home with my parents, and I have the luxury of being able to say, like, nah, I don't need this. If I lived on my own and was still paying my own rent, that'd be different. Maybe I would have taken a job at McDonald's. Yeah, like the bills gotta get paid. Hello, if something had to shake, but because I had a little bit more time, I was just like, Why is there so much pressure? Like, I get it, but also, yeah, I was not afraid to say no. And that's what she's referring to because I did say no to a couple things before I found what I wanted.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:20

And that's good though. Yeah, first of all, it's good that you had the support system, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:24

Because that's we do have to acknowledge that that's amazing, and it's a luxury that a lot of people have.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:29

A lot of reasons why I have that's the only reason why I can say no, and I know that exactly, yeah, but it's also good that you knew that those jobs weren't for you and you weren't coming out of a place of desperation when you said yes. Like when you said yes, it was genuinely because this is the role for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:46

Yeah, I know I'm gonna succeed in this role, and you just knew, like, I know you knew, and I knew the moment I read the job description that it was mine, and I had not felt that way about anything else, and it wasn't even like I was saying no in terms of like being overly picky because I wasn't gonna like turn down something for real for real, but it was getting ridiculous. Like, I applied to one job and went through so many rounds, and it was all looking really good, and then it went quiet for a minute, and I would check in every now and then, and the recruiter was like, Oh, just give it some time. Like it, this process can take a long time. She finally hit me back up like way, way later. I almost had forgotten I even applied and was like, Well, this role is now an internship, like it got reduced to that, but it will still have benefits if you know you are we had to call you first and give you the opportunity before we open it up again. And I sat with that for maybe like 30 seconds. I'm not gonna act like I was really like three days honoring that. But I was just like, you know what? Right now I'm definitely making zero dollars, so this is an improvement, and then I don't have benefits, so it's like cool internship with benefits, but then I was just like, but I literally like have a master's degree. I was like, I didn't go this hard to get it to be still an intern, like this is my moment to have a full-time role, so it was stuff like that where I was just like, no, this is somebody else's opportunity, like somebody got that internship, and that's where they needed to be. Yeah, but I knew for a Fendi fact that it was not me.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:16

I ain't never heard that one before. Girl, I'm gonna start using that. Girl, y'all write that down, write that down.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:21

Fendi facts, but yeah, but no, it just was so it wasn't if there was something that I felt like was okay, this is less than I want to make right now. That's understandable. Like this is my first job. You gotta at some point just you know what you can and can't give, but I knew that that was a little too far. But I do feel you like from the outside looking in, it was just very much like this girl doesn't play. And but yeah, when I got that offer, like I remember being in the car with you. Yeah, because we were riding back from what were we, PCB? Something like that. Yeah, was it PCB? Yeah, I think it was the beach, it was the beach, one of the Florida beaches, yeah. And I got that phone call. I think I cried in your car.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:02

Yeah, I was like tearing up too. Like, I was so happy. Like, I was like, oh my god, is this the place? Is this happening right now?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:08

Like, I was so happy, but not to derail you, but yeah, I feel you, and I'm really happy that that was able to like inspire you in a way. Yeah, it does absolutely girl.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:19

Yeah, it made me be even more picky about what I allow into my life because I think that's one thing that you do really well that inspires me. It's just like you don't let anything pass through the Kendall Dunn barrier. Like, yeah, if it's gonna come into your life, it's gonna be intentional, it's gonna be meaningful, it's gonna teach you something. Yeah, and I love the strict program that you run, and it it makes me want to run a strict program down to like you know, the jobs that I have, the people that I work with, and like those relationships that I build, they need to be meaningful and they need to be intentional. And I think now I'm in a much better space where it is meaningful and intentional, it's going somewhere. I think the last one didn't feel like it was going anywhere, and that was the most frustrating thing because I'm a person who needs to be growing and not in a toxic way where I constantly need to be doing something, but I need to be working towards something, especially in my career. Even if I know this might not be the next 15 years of my life, it might be the next five, and I need to build towards something in that five. I can't just be like, oh, just working this job just for a paycheck, just because I'm working on something else on the side. Like every part of my area, my my life, life needs to be growing. It's like a plan, it's literally like this plan. Like every single one is growing. Some might be growing more than others, but every single facet is growing, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:34

All towards like the larger picture of, I guess, your whole life you want your life to look like. Like, what are your pillars? What matters to you? Exactly. Yeah, exactly. But you know what I want to touch on? Mm-hmm. And this is kind of like the last thing because I think that we've done a good job at kind of talking about the different setbacks, but just setbacks where you actually really did want something. Like, I think we've talked about stuff that we kind of low-key knew wasn't aligned, but we know, or like we knew that we shouldn't be thinking this way, but but like times where like you actually really did want something, and I said like Georgia girl, she won't that was really funny. Yeah, I just remember I'm from the South sometimes. I was like, oh, this is I'm a southern girl. She is, but um, but times what you really want is something, and I think what made me think of this is because we're talking about jobs, but I remember I was an intern, going back to this whole concept of intern. I think that's where you're taking a shot every time you get interns. I feel you. But I was an intern at one point in college, and this is kind of towards the end. So at this point, sometimes internships get converted into full time roles. And I don't even think I graduated for another year, but they literally the program was designed to hold that spot for you for a year and you would come out of college set job. Yeah, I was like ideal. Scenario I want. Like I've heard everybody talk about this job market, and I don't want any parts of it. Literally. And so I, for the entire summer, felt like I was putting my best foot forward. And there was maybe a cohort of four or five of us that also were like the same role, just different verticals. But we there was only one spot. Yeah, I think we all knew that there was only one spot and it was like four or five of us. But I'm thinking like I'm killing it, I'm doing what I have to do. I don't even think I was viewing it as a competitive thing because those people were really cool, and I have no idea what they're working on, and they don't know what I'm working on. So there was nothing to really compare, but I just kind of knew what I was doing, and I was like, this is you know, like I thought I was setting myself up really, really well. Yeah. And then it was um a couple of weeks after the internship ended, they set up a call um to just kind of talk about your experience and to let you know if you got the offer or not. And I didn't. And I remember wanting to cry on the call because that day I just, you know, when you just wake up, you open the windows, you like, let's, let's, let's like, put some good juju in, you know, some good juju, like let's meditate, let's set the vibe, like, let's say our positive affirmation. Good energy. Yeah, because this is how that year when I had started to change things around, and I was just like attracting so much good. So I was kind of riding a high of like so much good. I was like, this is gonna happen, right? It has to. And so the call, of course, started off super nice. You know, they're gonna put it in a nice, like, you know, that compliment sandwich. Yeah, and so I'm thinking, oh, okay, this is it. And then they're like, but we can't offer you this position. And I'm crazy. So then I went to LinkedIn to see who did get it. Because you know, people were right, like incoming, this, that, and the third, and I figured out who did get it, and I was just like, wait, what was she doing that I wasn't doing? Like, wait, wait, what is she? What was she working on? But that wasn't a very healthy way of thinking about it, but it's just because I really wanted it, and I was like, gosh, like this hurts, this really stings. And at the time, I just all I saw was the negatives, yeah. But looking back on it now, my life would have looked so different, and it might have been a good thing, yeah, but I always have known that I wanted to go to grad school, and what really like stands out to me about that is I was just willing to like not do that anymore. I've always known that I kind of wanted to go straight from college to grad school too. I'm not even talking about go back in a couple years, like I've always known I wanted that to be one clean sweep, yeah. And I already knew like the school I wanted to go to because it was my dream school that I didn't get into when I was in high school. So I was like, grad school is my opportunity, it's literally like the top communication school, like it's LA. It was everything that I needed it to be at the time. So I knew I what I wanted to do, and I was willing to just be like, well, but if I get this offer, like I'll just say, forget all that, which was kind of strange that I was willing to do that, and it almost felt like a little gentle redirection from the universe. Like, wait, remember that you wanted to do this, right? But that's not what I was seeing at the time, yeah, you know, and sometimes it's a little bit more clear, other times it's not, but that just reminded me of you know, like talking about setbacks, just times where it's like, but I actually really did want that. Yeah, and what do you do when it's like it doesn't work out? It can be really hard to like try to look for the positives in it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:30

It really is, yeah. I think similarly to you, it's less about a job and more about my experience with school. I really, really, really did not want to go to Georgia State.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:42

Like, oh my god, I remember this.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:44

Yes, this was like a whole conversation, yeah. And I remember when I was graduating from SMS, I really wanted to go to like this private school in North Carolina, but they did not offer me as much financial aid that I needed. And uh mind you, tuition was like 60k a year, similar to what SMS was. And I know my parents retired, like they're like, okay, you know, not that they were paying because I had financial aid for SMS, I'm not paying no 60k a year. I'm sorry, I'll stay home and go to public school for that. You know, I'll have me a nice school car, you know, so many things I could have had if I went to public school, but I just was I knew that it would be a stretch, but that's really what I wanted to do. And a lot of my friends were going to that school, and I wanted to go too. I loved it, I loved the campus, I love the feel. But I had that conversation with my mom, and she was like, basically, you're crazy if you think that I'm paying for you to go there. You got I remember this too, bro.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:44

Because I just felt bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:45

Yeah, I was so like hurt. Like, I was just so like, and I tried to make the best of it, you know, like okay, cool, college decision day, put on my little Georgia State t-shirt. And I kept like hoping and on a prayer and a miracle to come through that was like, Oh, actually, we opened up, you know, financial funds for you to be able to come, but that just never happened, and so like I ended up going to Georgia State. Like I said, I tried to make the best of it, and I just really did not like it. Like, everything about that experience was just so frustrating, like it just was having me feel so like you said, isolated when you were talking about when you were living away from campus at Howard because I didn't live on campus at Georgia State, I stayed at home, yeah. I was commuting, I was like 45 minutes out, I was sitting through traffic to get through those 8 a.m. Like the whole experience was just like I don't want this, I don't like this, and I was really trying to make the best of it because like it was cheap, like it was a college education for like $1,000. Like I was trying to really get to it, you know, like just put the education first, like you get an education, you get a good education, and I went to business school, so you know, J Mac Robinson is a good business school, you know. We're connected to all these different businesses in the city, so I was really doing my best, but I got to a point where I just I think COVID for me was a blessing in disguise because it was getting to a point where, in order for me to go to school, I had to have Ryan, my little sister, wake me up and take her to school so that way I would already be up and out and then go to school. Like I was really like, I would not go, like I would email the professor and be like, I'm sick, da-da-da-da. How can I catch up? Like, I just did not want to go to catch. It wasn't, it wasn't for me. Like, I would spend hours in the library by myself on campus. Like, it just was, and I'm a social person, so you know that's not like me at all. Like, and yeah, I got ahead and I was definitely about my books, you know. Like, I was definitely not the person to play with when it came to academics, but I need to have a release too, like I need to have fun too. And the people that I was like clicking with first semester actually didn't click at all, you know, it wasn't the actual click that I was looking for, so yeah, I ended up transferring, and that's when I ended up going to West Georgia. But COVID happened at the end of my spring semester of freshman year, and so it for me was like the greatest relief because it meant that I didn't have to go to campus anymore and I could just finish out the school year online, and that felt really good. And then um I had gotten to West around the same time that that happened, and so then I realized, okay, well, I'm probably gonna be starting that semester online, but it was fine because I ended up going to campus. I think my first semester of West, I was on campus, it was super weird, it was super COVID guidelines and stuff, so I moved off campus, but that whole experience was so much better of commuting there than it was commuting to Georgia State. And I remember when I finally decided to go on the tour with my mom because she kept telling me about West Georgia, I was like, I don't want to go to no West Georgia.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:45

Like, I was like, Why are you recommending this school?

SPEAKER_03 1:13:49

You know, I weren't even here of West Georgia until you went.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:52

I literally didn't know anything about this everywhere, of course. Because they update print marketing.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:56

And they have they have marketing these buses certainly around Atlanta. Yeah, they got budget for sure. But yeah, I literally, because Ryan had planned on going there, my mom was like, you know, West Georgia's a good school, and I was like, I ain't trying to go to no West Georgia girl. Like, I'm gonna figure it out and figure something else. So then I finally agreed, and I went on a tour, and I literally just fell in love with the campus space.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:16

It's so much more of a campus for real. Yeah, Georgia State is one of those integrated into the city type vibes, annoying type vibes. And were you there when they built the racetrack? Yes, or had you uh I thought that made it worse. Like it just was a hub. It was a gathering spot. Yeah, it was literally the gathering spot. Meet me at the racetrack, and like we'll go. And but mind you, you're just a student, yeah, and this is your campus. So I understand because because because because West Georgia is so much more of a campus, it felt like a community, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:48

Like you go on campus and you know that you're on campus, and you can tell who works here, who goes to school here, who lives in the area, like you can differentiate between people, and that was my biggest thing. Like on campus at Georgia State, I'd be walking a class and somebody taking a smoke break with a cigarette from a nine to five, you know, and it's like and it gets depressing, you know. I'm like, is this what I'm working towards right now? Like, I don't really want that. That's not the problem I'm going for. I'm just trying to go to my English class. Like, dang, like y'all looking like y'all hit y'all lives on these little cigarette breaks, and I have to walk by and just keep the push. It's reality right in your face, boo. Because it's sometimes I just didn't want that reality. I don't even see that. And I mean, yeah, it's understandable. This is college, boo. That's supposed to be the best four years of your life for whatever they say. Like, dang for whatever they say, exactly. But yeah, I think I had a much better experience at West. So I think it was like me not getting into the I got into the school, but I just didn't get the eight that I wanted. It felt like such a setback. It felt like I was like a failure, it felt like I wasn't, you know, living up to my potential. It was all these things that I was feeling so like frustrated about, but it really set me up for West at the end of the day, which was like three years later. But I think I had the best experience at West. Like I had an even better experience there than I think I would have had at the original college that I wanted to go to. I met so many great people at West. I mean, I met Malik there. It's like so many things.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:16

Yeah, it's like your whole it's like a butterfly effect almost. Literally, there's so many things that wouldn't even be in your life today. Literally, we wouldn't even be here. We wouldn't even be right here if I didn't gone, which is insane. Right. But I'm so glad that you did it. Yeah, same. And you like took that leap because I remember have us having conversations about state for you. And it's crazy because I know a lot of people that went to state, and for some of them, they loved it. Like, but it all just depends on who you are. Yeah, so wasn't for me. Shout out to the people who it's even hard to envision you there, like now that you aren't there, yeah. Just because I think of college for you, I only think of West because of everything that happened while you were there. I don't even remember that part where you were. I was there for four years, but I really wasn't because of how much that I did and the short amount of time that I was there.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:03

Yeah, and you really had like a foundation there versus like state, you know, which is like tells you like I should have been at West all along. Yeah, I should have just listened to my mama.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:13

And the mom listener is listening to your mama because the mamas be knowing, right? The mamas be knowing.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:19

Shout out to Nins for real. Oh my gosh. Well, I guess we can go ahead and start talking about what we want you to walk out with. Yeah. Because, you know, we can sit here and ramble all day long. We sure could, but we don't want to depress you with all of our setbacks because it's it's been a lot of setbacks, but I think, and that's important to paint that picture too, because like we said, like last episode, it was like a lot of good things, it was a lot of great things.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:44

I think the first two episodes was just straight. Each other, like dad, these girls have never had a bad day. No, I am so glad that we talked about this because I really think the biggest lessons I've learned in my life have been have been from the setback. Yeah, and I think that's the walkout, like that's the takeaway. Yeah, is it's not about this again, quote unquote failure. It's not about the setback, but it's like, what do you do with that? What do you learn from that? Because a lot of times the setback is teaching you something that just straight winning and success won't. Yeah. Like, of course, life is good when you always winning. And of course, it looks like everyone's always winning because that's what people show you, but you don't see what's going on in the back where it's like, oh, this girl got knocked down 20 times, but she got up on that 21st and said, I'm gonna keep going. 21, 21. And that's I had to. This girl, but yeah, but that's that's all that I can just hope to continue to because I feel like it's hard, like there's different challenges in life. Yeah, like we spoke a lot about our challenges in college, but there's gonna be challenges now that we are finally out of like we're like really set in our yeah, what would you call it? Like our careers, like our early careers. Like we're both now here. There's gonna be plenty of setbacks, yeah. And it's like you have to just keep that mentality of like, all right, don't let that get to you to a point where you're not just again taking in the data. We love that. Taking the data, yeah, taking the data and analyze, yeah, analyze and move forward.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:20

Yeah, I agree. A setback is literally a setup, and that setup is preparing you for the next step. So analyze as much as you can. And I think when it comes to setbacks, just give it time, is the biggest thing. Is if you were like trying to move immediately after a setback, like that's not the time to. Like I feel like the the lesson comes a little bit once you're removed from the situation and process it, you know, really feel your feelings when it comes to setbacks. Like, I just remember feeling so frustrated and feeling so angry and feeling so upset, and now being on the other side, I'm glad that I felt that because now I know the difference in feelings. Because, like, if you were winning all the time, you wouldn't know what it feels like to actually win.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:09

Exactly, you know, because if you lose, don't appreciate moments where like you were actually up, right? You don't learn anything from constantly winning. So, yeah, that's what I feel like I'm walking out of here with going into my week. Remember that keep your head high, yes, and don't take setbacks too personally, but know that it's normal. Yeah, it is. And if I don't experience a setback, like I think I've already said this before, if I don't feel like I'm experiencing any type of discomfort, that's a sign to me. Like if I'm not again, quote unquote failing, I'm tired of doing that, but I don't want to say failing as though like that's like fact, right? You get me. But if I'm not failing at anything, like, am I even trying?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:56

You know, so that's a whole different topic for real. But yeah. Well, we can go ahead and wrap it up here. We can because we've been talking to y'all for a really long time. So I'm gonna let you go, give your ears a rest. Now you know what to do. Please be sure to, if you're watching our beautiful faces on YouTube, we put a lot of time and work into making sure that we look so good for you today and that our environment is exactly what it needs to be to deliver this amazing visual experience. So go ahead and hit that red button, click right there, and then hit that bell. That's gonna show you post notifications. Okay, girl, we got sound effects with y'all need to know. Y'all need to know, okay? If you're on Spotify, Apple Podcast, make sure to hit that follow button and leave us a review. We are five-star girlies, so if it's anything less than five stars, DM us, okay? Hello, DM us. It don't need to be out on the public internet, you know, like yeah, text me, call me, let me know what you need. But we would love to have y'all engage with us a little bit more. And also leave uh in the description below. I want to let you know that there are um the black business spotlight request form and uh let me help you out QA. So if you have any topic suggestions or anything that you feel like you need help with or advice on and you want to come to us about it, we'd be honored. You know, let us know. So we're here always.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:24

And also, you can also share anything that you feel like has set you back and what you've learned from it because I really want to get to know y'all. Yeah, so leave it in the comments, leave it in the comments, and you know, let's talk about it. Always feel free to leave it in the comments.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:39

We can generate some good conversation down there, sure, and then the conversation can continue. Like we can make like little TikToks about it or something like that to like respond. Like, just let us know really like what you want from us, and we're happy, like we're your girls like all summer long. So, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:57

All right, well, and there's episode three. That's the rain. We'll see y'all next time. Bye. Love you.